Giving it a rest

#22
aslan said:
Where I be headed, the "long run" takes on new meaning, and everyone is a winner.* But, hey, it really gets tiresome when you can't lose! I think I'll probably take up new adventures.
Its all one grand adventure Brother Aslan. Praise HIM! zg
 

sagefr0g

Well-Known Member
#23
MangoJ said:
It seems the rollercoaster game is what it takes to be a winner on counting blackjack.

To my ears, "recreational play" is an alias for "gambling problem" - first used by the casino to justify business. Hell, those are drug dealers plain right in front of you, and you know it.
Justifying flat bets (or any other -EV game) with "recreational play" by yourself is the development of a gambling problem.

Blackjack is a so freaking boring game, who would ever play it in their free time ?
well, aslan isn't only planning to flat bet per the OP.....
what i'm getting from the OP is he's seeking to lessen that roller-coaster ride. which is entirely possible, no? isn't the ride all relative for some given unit and spread and isn't it possible with a lower spread to squelch the noise even more, fine tuning to the point where one is break even or just above all the while maintaining a 'reasonable' risk of ruin?
and like any investment positioning, according to utility theory one shoe doesn't fit all, ie. there is an element of subjectivity allowed for. long run and 'blowing up' one's bankroll has different connotations for various age groups and financial status positions.

just me maybe, ultimately the common ground EV-wise would be realization of the value desired (ie. what are yah gonna do with the money anyway?) while experiencing 'negative capacitance'. perhaps the game can be unbearably boring but it is not with out it's priceless drama, a drama that can only be subjectively valued.
http://www.blackjackinfo.com/bb/showpost.php?p=195154&postcount=24
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Negative_capability
Keats...
"I mean Negative Capability, that is when man is capable of being in uncertainties, Mysteries, doubts without any irritable reaching after fact & reason."
anyway, like CP said: http://www.blackjackinfo.com/bb/showpost.php?p=227256&postcount=20
as an aside, one of the plus ev experiences gleaned from the bj bash's for a guy of my ilk is picking up on just a wee bit of the mathematical wizardry and intense roller-coaster rides experiences such as i imagine you perform.:)
 

aslan

Well-Known Member
#25
steiner said:
^^ the game as such may be boring, but the math behind it is pretty cool, especially for a mathematician with interest in game theory / statistics.
I find nothing boring about pushing out $1,000 and receiving two face cards.... especially when the dealer has a four showing and a ten in the hole.... and hits a seven! :laugh: You might say punishing, but never boring!
 

aslan

Well-Known Member
#26
MangoJ said:
From a mathematical point this game is also boring. It's a game with same information for all actors. And others players decisions are uncorrelated to your play, and the dealer has no freedom of decisions: you are effectively the only player of that game.
Further, this game has been already been fully solved with combinatorial analysis for almost each decision to make.
Counting systems, index tables, and bet sizes are just a "engineer" problem to find a suitable approximation to the exact (and known!) solution that is inexpencive for human play. Nothing fundamental compared to a real mathematical problem.

Poker is a far more interesting game from the mathematical side.

I'm not saying Blackjack is boring in an entertaining way. I spent just 4 month from completely zero knowledge of blackjack to a full combinatorial analysis giving EV and variance of each and every decision option. It was just for pure entertaining, a mental exercise.

Nothing is more rewarding than computing basic strategy from your own mind up to compositinal play, get EVs matching all 7 digits as published by WoO. Sure this work has already been done (and hence is boring in terms of science), but is hell of a joyride.

At least when becoming addicted to an activity, make it +EV for your life. (music, sports, or AP)
"...computing basic strategy from your own mind up to compositinal play, get EVs matching all 7 digits as published by WoO... now that's what I call exciting!! :laugh::devil::laugh::devil::whip:
 

aslan

Well-Known Member
#27
creeping panther said:
You gents need to understand that for us guys, gals, in our 60's things may look alot different and our goals, needs, capabilities also change.

I wish Aslan the best, he will be back, probably will never leave:laugh:

CP
Well, I'm not leaving the Forum, that's for sure. I mean, what's the alternative, the PBB?*


*Ploppy Bulletin Board
 

Dyepaintball12

Well-Known Member
#28
Aslan, I'm right there with you. The swings are so up and down and after doing other AP techniques I don't even really find CC'ing BJ interesting anymore. I also am tired of the constant struggle to avoid Heat.

I recently started playing a BJ-variant that is far more interesting to play and I am getting more into HC'ing which I find much more enjoyable.
 

jack.jackson

Well-Known Member
#29
aslan said:
I'm giving card counting a rest for a while. I am really tired of the roller coaster and short run high risk. I'm a short run kind of guy, so I find it very difficult to play the long run game. I want to win in the here and now, and I can't always do that with card counting. My most recent experience was having the following happen in a three day trip: Up $2,700; down $2,000; even; down $4,000; and lastly, up $1,000 (I left winning $1,000). I hate to leave when I am behind-- so much for the one continuous session concept. I also hate the prospects of losing big any given session, even though I know I will come out ahead in the long run.

I will probably continue to count, but reduce my bet spread to almost nothing. I will continue to apply indexes in decision making. The difference will be that I will be playing low limit and either flat betting or hardly raising my bet. This means I am reducing my game from a profit making one to a purely recreational one. I know I said I like to win in the short run and this will be less probable without proper bet spreading, but I don't consider small losses/wins to be losses or wins at all. The losses are reasonable payment for the fun and social aspects of the game, and the wins are temporary advances in a long run losing game. I'll also garner a few comps.

Let's see how long I'll last as a red chipper! I'm applying my trip bankroll ($5,000) to my home mortgage, and will adopt a very small bankroll approach to playing blackjack and VP-- I'm guessing, $300 to $500, an amount that I could spend on a couple of Vegas shows or a class restaurant. This will be a far cry from my last trip where I played the high roller room for the first time and even made several $1,000 bets. The extra large bets were a product of my distaste for ending a short run session loser. So I'm going out on a winning session. I wonder if any of you old timers have had any similar epiphany.
Why dont you tell'us how much your really down?
 
#30
Straight

At the BJ BASH one of the guests will be speaking of his experiences with straight counting in a very good game and I will admit it may open some eyes as to what can be done. I know this player to have skillz, but is using straight counting and his story is of great importance,,, IMHO.

The sooner you hear what this AP has to say the better, again,,IMHO.;)

Of course there will be others there into a wide range of AP player that will prove a real benefit to hear speak.

For those of you attending please try to make the private greet and eat that first night so you can be involved in these discussions.:cool::)

CP
 

BJgenius007

Well-Known Member
#32
aslan said:
I find nothing boring about pushing out $1,000 and receiving two face cards.... especially when the dealer has a four showing and a ten in the hole.... and hits a seven! :laugh: You might say punishing, but never boring!
I will tell you a story to make you feel better because misery likes company.

This morning I lost 75% of my max bets, which is very unusually high. It is a DD game which I won 9 of my last 10 trips and the dealer claims it is the most popular (and best) game in the east coast.

Anyway, after losing 5 straight max bet in the last 30 minutes, an opportunity approached. Dealer has dealt 1.25 decks and I have only seen 2 aces, so the remaining 0.75 deck is super ace rich. The running count is +14. That transforms to +19 TC. To recoup all my losses, I bet 16 units. (My max bet for this game was 8 units.) I got 20. (Joy!) All other 6 players got 13, 14 or 15. (Feel sad for my fellow APs.) The dealer's upcard was an Ace (Sad! Really Sad!!) Dealer asked if anyone wanted to buy Insurance. Are you nuts? TC was +19. I spent another 8 units to buy insurance. The other 3 APs also did it as well.

It is not a TEN. "F*ck!" One AP couldn't contain himself and cursed after losing 12 units on this hand. All other six players (it is a full table) chose to hit even I wanted to scream to some of them, "Surrender! Surrender! Surrender is the correct play for most of the index plays." Oddly enough, all six of them got a face card to bust their hands eventually, after some of them got an ace first. The running count was down to +2. TC was now only +4.

Dealer turned his down card over. It was another ace. Then slowly he drew another card. It is a ten. Now I am happy. There is 84% of the chance I will won this hand, 8% to tie, only 8% to lose if the next card is a nine.

Dealer drew another card. It was nine.
 
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Coyote

Well-Known Member
#33
BJgenius007 said:
Dealer turned his down card over. It was another ace. Then slowly he drew another card. It is a ten. Now I am happy. There is 84% of the chance I will won this hand, 8% to tie, only 8% to lose if the next card is a nine.

Dealer drew another card. It was nine.
Ouch! :eek::cry::whip:
 

aslan

Well-Known Member
#34
BJgenius007 said:
I will tell you a story to make you feel better because misery likes company.

This morning I lost 75% of my max bets, which is very unusually high. It is a DD game which I won 9 of my last 10 trips and the dealer claims it is the most popular (and best) game in the east coast.

Anyway, after losing 5 straight max bet in the last 30 minutes, an opportunity approached. Dealer has dealt 1.25 decks and I have only seen 2 aces, so the remaining 0.75 deck is super ace rich. The running count is +14. That transforms to +19 TC. To recoup all my losses, I bet 16 units. (My max bet for this game was 8 units.) I got 20. (Joy!) All other 6 players got 13, 14 or 15. (Feel sad for my fellow APs.) The dealer's upcard was an Ace (Sad! Really Sad!!) Dealer asked if anyone wanted to buy Insurance. Are you nuts? TC was +19. I spent another 8 units to buy insurance. The other 3 APs also did it as well.

It is not a TEN. "F*ck!" One AP couldn't contain himself and cursed after losing 12 units on this hand. All other six players (it is a full table) chose to hit even I wanted to scream to some of them, "Surrender! Surrender! Surrender is the correct play for most of the index plays." Oddly enough, all six of them got a face card to bust their hands eventually, after some of them got an ace first. The running count was down to +2. TC was now only +4.

Dealer turned his down card over. It was another ace. Then slowly he drew another card. It is a ten. Now I am happy. There is 84% of the chance I will won this hand, 8% to tie, only 8% to lose if the next card is a nine.

Dealer drew another card. It was nine.
Hey, I feel your pain, and such things often happen several times in a row.

Of course it happens the other way around, too. My buddy was just in AC. He's dealt a stiff, the dealer an Ace. My buddy hits, and makes a hand. The dealer doesn't have blackjack, and ultimately, the dealer busted. Next hand, same thing. Player gets a stiff and dealer gets an Ace. Same thing happens. Player makes a hand hitting his stiff and the dealer busts his ace hand. This, he claims, occurred four times in a row. Four times the dealer got an ace, and four times he busted. And all four times, the player hit a stiff and made a hand. What are the odds on that!?
 
#37
aslan said:
Well, I'm not leaving the Forum, that's for sure. I mean, what's the alternative, the PBB?*
"Come home to the Zone." z:laugh:g

Ps - Traffic is up substantially since you departed, more than it ever was here, but
we haven't yet regained the full quality of discussion once enjoyed by many here. zg
 
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Gamblor

Well-Known Member
#40
Aslan sorry to hear the roller coaster ride is getting to you, as others mentioned a break from anything you do all the time is never a bad thing.

Having said that there are ways to smooth out the roller coaster ride. I feel I need to take a break because I've been winning consistently too much at my local casinos ;) Good problem to have.
 
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