[note: x-posted in advanced forum for exposure]
I'm a member of a 3-member team of card counters. After training for the better part of a year, we recently began making actual casino runs. The results have been perplexing and I was hoping someone from the counting community might be able to shed some light on our predicament.
Originally we started with a $6,000 bankroll. So far we have made five casino trips and we've lost money four of the five trips. Each time we've lost, we lost around $500-$800 dollars. On the trip that we won, we won a little over $1,000. I know that losses are an expected part of counting, but losing 4 out of 5 times seems excessive. Each trip we've spent roughly 24 hours in the casino counting. During each trip, we've fluctuated wildly between winning and losing money. At one moment we'll be up $500 or so, then we'll be down $700, make the $700 back and get up a couple hundred, and then, more often than not, lose it again. The way I've heard counting described by other counters, the profits seem slow but sure. This is what perplexes me the most: How could we have logged so many hours in the casino and still be losing money unless we're doing something wrong? How could we spend so many hours in the casino and not be completely bankrupt unless we're doing something right?
Here's what we've been doing: At the beginning of the night we each take $2000 of the bankroll. Inside the casino we each find separate tables to count at. If a shoe is very hot, we may signal another member in, but for the most part we operate alone and total are wins/losses at the end of the night. Our betting increments for playing a single hand have been $20 for a true count of +1, $40 for +2, $60 for +3 and $80 for any count +4 or greater. If we're playing two hands we use $15 increments. We usually backcount until a shoe is positive and then join in, but sometimes we'll just sit down and place the minimum $10 bet until the shoe becomes positive. Whenever the count drops below a true count of negative two we leave the table. When calculating the true count, we subtract 1 to account for the house's edge.
Here are the rules of the casino we count at:
Blackjack pays 1.5 to 1
Resplit up to four hands
No resplitting aces
Double down on any two cards
Dealer peeks for aces and tens
No surrender
Minimum bet is $10
The casino places the cut card 4 - 4 ½ decks deep.
The only thing I can think of that may be the problem is that usually there are 4 to 6 other players at the table with us. Could this account for the fluctuations we've seen? Can anyone think of anything else that might account for our losses?
We've tested and retested our counting under extreme conditions so we are certain that the problem is not lack of skill. Any help will be greatly appreciated.
I'm a member of a 3-member team of card counters. After training for the better part of a year, we recently began making actual casino runs. The results have been perplexing and I was hoping someone from the counting community might be able to shed some light on our predicament.
Originally we started with a $6,000 bankroll. So far we have made five casino trips and we've lost money four of the five trips. Each time we've lost, we lost around $500-$800 dollars. On the trip that we won, we won a little over $1,000. I know that losses are an expected part of counting, but losing 4 out of 5 times seems excessive. Each trip we've spent roughly 24 hours in the casino counting. During each trip, we've fluctuated wildly between winning and losing money. At one moment we'll be up $500 or so, then we'll be down $700, make the $700 back and get up a couple hundred, and then, more often than not, lose it again. The way I've heard counting described by other counters, the profits seem slow but sure. This is what perplexes me the most: How could we have logged so many hours in the casino and still be losing money unless we're doing something wrong? How could we spend so many hours in the casino and not be completely bankrupt unless we're doing something right?
Here's what we've been doing: At the beginning of the night we each take $2000 of the bankroll. Inside the casino we each find separate tables to count at. If a shoe is very hot, we may signal another member in, but for the most part we operate alone and total are wins/losses at the end of the night. Our betting increments for playing a single hand have been $20 for a true count of +1, $40 for +2, $60 for +3 and $80 for any count +4 or greater. If we're playing two hands we use $15 increments. We usually backcount until a shoe is positive and then join in, but sometimes we'll just sit down and place the minimum $10 bet until the shoe becomes positive. Whenever the count drops below a true count of negative two we leave the table. When calculating the true count, we subtract 1 to account for the house's edge.
Here are the rules of the casino we count at:
Blackjack pays 1.5 to 1
Resplit up to four hands
No resplitting aces
Double down on any two cards
Dealer peeks for aces and tens
No surrender
Minimum bet is $10
The casino places the cut card 4 - 4 ½ decks deep.
The only thing I can think of that may be the problem is that usually there are 4 to 6 other players at the table with us. Could this account for the fluctuations we've seen? Can anyone think of anything else that might account for our losses?
We've tested and retested our counting under extreme conditions so we are certain that the problem is not lack of skill. Any help will be greatly appreciated.
