NEW James Grosjean article

[sagefr0g]

a joint i used to play in had these little shiny metallic and moveable signs that stated the rules of the game sitting on the table usually by third base. i found that i could 'mindlessly' fiddle with the sign so as to position it just right, lol. in truth though i never tryed to use that potential advantage. just found it interesting.:devil::whip:

far as the book i'll probably not buy it at the price. i'd love to have it in my little library though, lol.

probably just me, i wont deny lots of this sort of information is valuable, thing is i find even more value is the underlying mind set that seeks out and figures out such stuff. bj-warrior mentality sort of thing.

 

[Pro21]

... if this is true one might be able to attack the royal match side bet

That bet is in the book. It's worthless.

 

[iCountNTrack]

But, planning your entire strategy around finding ways to gain info that the rules say you should not have is not beating Blackjack.

Personally, I think that articles on hole-carding by a highly intelligent mathematician sullies the entire field and makes us all look bad.

Like some people we know QFIT .

I personally do not consider basing your entire strategy on hole carding advantage play it is more like cheating, besides i find more gratifying when i beat a game with weak rules, deep penetration, or a weak shuffle. You are really not beating the game if you have clumsy dealers who flash the hole card half the time. You are no better than any dumb player who sees the 6 under the ten and decides to stand on his hard 12.

 

[moo321]

Like some people we know QFIT .

I personally do not consider basing your entire strategy on hole carding advantage play it is more like cheating, besides i find more gratifying when i beat a game with weak rules, deep penetration, or a weak shuffle. You are really not beating the game if you have clumsy dealers who flash the hole card half the time. You are no better than any dumb player who sees the 6 under the ten and decides to stand on his hard 12.

Personally, I don't give a rat's ass if hole-carding is perceived as cheating. It's a monstrous advantage, and I'm not turning it down. Casinos deserve whatever legally comes to them.

 

[JSTAT]

When Dr. Thorp wrote his book on how to use your brain to mathematically beat Blackjack, many of us that loved both cards and math were excited at the concept of advantage play against casinos. The rules of Blackjack state that you cannot see the dealer's hoe card. If you accidentally see it, you should use the information. But, planning your entire strategy around finding ways to gain info that the rules say you should not have is not beating Blackjack.

Personally, I think that articles on hole-carding by a highly intelligent mathematician sullies the entire field and makes us all look bad.

I agree with OFIT about using our intelligence to mathematically beat blackjack. The high from this feat is better than drugs. Practicing counting at home is just as fulfilling. Knowing when more blackjacks are coming out at single deck is magical. From time to time, the dealer bungles the hole card and exposes it. The pit is notified and usually rule in favor of the players. But the fun is taken out of the game if a dealer is always sloppy with the hole card.

JSTAT

 

[Tarzan]

Fun

I have no true expertise in holecarding techniques but I'll be darned if I would feel let down about having an increased edge because of it "taking any of the fun out of it". I am not at this to have fun, to attain a warm fuzzy feeling or anything else---I am at this to attain a profit! You cut loose and have fun... meanwhile, I will focus on turning a buck and making money!

I have seen some challenging and likely "fun" 6to5 games going on... those people look like they are having a lot of fun! I would just assume miss out on the "fun" and focus on the task at hand, which is to be profitable. If I can see holecards or could devise a means to consistently see hole cards I wouldn't feel "let down" in any way or think that things are less challenging or less fun.

 

[zengrifter]

The high from this feat is better than drugs.

Not all drugs. zg

 

[Mimosine]

Not all drugs. zg

seconded.

 

[Automatic Monkey]

I have no true expertise in holecarding techniques but I'll be darned if I would feel let down about having an increased edge because of it "taking any of the fun out of it". I am not at this to have fun, to attain a warm fuzzy feeling or anything else---I am at this to attain a profit! You cut loose and have fun... meanwhile, I will focus on turning a buck and making money!

I have seen some challenging and likely "fun" 6to5 games going on... those people look like they are having a lot of fun! I would just assume miss out on the "fun" and focus on the task at hand, which is to be profitable. If I can see holecards or could devise a means to consistently see hole cards I wouldn't feel "let down" in any way or think that things are less challenging or less fun.

I agree, this isn't for fun. And few things are less fun than walking away from the table with empty pockets after a bad session. Holecarding is just fine by me, and morally, so is cheating. Casinos cheat when they can get away with it too.

 

[johndoe]

I play because I love beating the game, so it's pretty much "for fun"; I make more $ with my job. But beating the game (and me having fun) requires playing precisely and correctly. As for holecarding, more power to those who can scout and exploit those opportunities. I rarely find them (but I don't search hard for them either.)

 

[zengrifter]

I agree, this isn't for fun. And few things are less fun than walking away from the table with empty pockets after a bad session. Holecarding is just fine by me, and morally, so is cheating. Casinos cheat when they can get away with it too.

Right... as the GREAT CHEAT, Dustin Marks has said: This isn't a church, its a casino! zg

 

[moo321]

I agree, this isn't for fun. And few things are less fun than walking away from the table with empty pockets after a bad session. Holecarding is just fine by me, and morally, so is cheating. Casinos cheat when they can get away with it too.

I would never cheat, but I probably wouldn't say anything if I saw someone else doing it against the house.

 

[ihate17]

Go somewhere else

I would never cheat, but I probably wouldn't say anything if I saw someone else doing it against the house.

I once sat at a pitch game table, at second base where the dealer and the player at first base were working together and cheating the house. The dealer would expose his hole card to first base and also show him a bit of the top card in the remaining stack in case he needed to hit.
At second base I could see this also and it gave me a big edge but after a few hands it became obvious to me that they were partners cheating and if the casino caught it I might also get arrested as part of their cheating team.

I colored up, cashed out and left that casino and did not return at all during that Vegas trip. So my advice to you, if you see cheating on the table: You decide if you wish to tell the casino or not, but if you decide to not tell them...Leave before you somehow get implicated.

ihate17

 

[FLASH1296]

I would have left the table but I would have then told the Pit Boss what I had observed.

If a dealer does as described he MUST also cheat the public to make up for the shortfall.

 

[ihate17]

I agree but this was over 30 years ago

I would have left the table but I would have then told the Pit Boss what I had observed.

If a dealer does as described he MUST also cheat the public to make up for the shortfall.

This took place at Sahara sometime around 1978 and back then I was very much a novice counter and did know then that a cheating dealer would look to make up his shortfall by cheating civilians.

ihate17

 

[Tarzan]

Cheating Dealers

I posted about this one before way back but I saw a video demonstration of the "Laughlin Layaway" technique used in a pitch game in which the dealer peeks at the top card and then deals either the top card or the second card to the player depending on what he saw. It was amazing and alarming at the same time and made me wonder if I was ever the victim of this way back in the early days. Dealer working in collusion with a player? It seems to me that it could only go on for a short time before someone catches on, such as the eye! Would you guys agree with this?

You have me paranoid now, Flash! Next time we are playing together and the dealer pays me on a push (an honest mistake that sometimes happens), I will have to be concerned that you will squeal on me!!!hahahaha

 

[FLASH1296]

Ironically, (about 8 hrs. ago), a ploppy ratted me out for accepting an overpayment on a color change.

Naturally I would never voluntarily return same.

the dude apologized, as he had "shot off his mouth" reflexively.

My response was to thank him for pointing out the dealer's (and floor's) error ...

followed by an instant toke.

 

[Bojack1]

Ironically, (about 8 hrs. ago), a ploppy ratted me out for accepting an overpayment on a color change.

Naturally I would never voluntarily return same.

the dude apologized, as he had did it reflexively.

My response was to thank him for pointing out the dealer's (and floor's) error,

followed by an immediate toke.

So are you saying dishonestly accepting money that you know you didn't win is fine, essentially stealing, but team play within the rules of the game is unethical. Of course your response was tongue in cheek as well I suppose. Paradox be thy name.

 

[FLASH1296]

NO paradox

Obviously you continue to be burdened by your need / desire to demean me.

There is NO paradox here. I am imperfectly ethical. Mostly everyone is.

If I plan or conspire to do something unethical that is one thing.
Taking advantage of found money is merely opportunistic.
That is why courts, etc. always consider "motive"
When money falls in my lap I accept it.
I do not take any steps to take what is NOT mine !

What I just posted is completely accurate as to what happened;
but I am, unlike some paragons of virtue, merely human.

Last week a player left a green chip under a napkin at third base.
I found it and kept it - rather than attempting to return it to its rightful owner.

 

[Automatic Monkey]

Obviously you continue to be burdened by your need / desire to demean me.

There is NO paradox here. I am imperfectly ethical. Mostly everyone is.

If I plan or conspire to do something unethical that is one thing.
Taking advantage of found money is merely opportunistic.
That is why courts, etc. always consider "motive"
When money falls in my lap I accept it.
I do not take any steps to take what is NOT mine !

What I just posted is completely accurate as to what happened;
but I am, unlike some paragons of virtue, merely human.

There's nothing unethical about taking advantage of the casino. If you make a Basic Strategy error and lose a hand, do they give you the money back? Of course not. When they make an error and overpay me, I keep it. And I will help them to make more such errors in the future. Screw them. These guys are the enemy of all humans and apes.

Ever get paid on a lammer on the bottom of your stack?

Last week a player left a green chip under a napkin at third base.
I found it and kept it - rather than attempting to return it to its rightful owner.

That I wouldn't do. If I knew who's chip it was and I could get it to them, I'd give it back.