Oscar grinders

G

gamblingghost

Well-Known Member
#61
#61
pit15 said:
Actually I insulted her play. I said something like "That was stupid not to hit that (soft 18). That's why you're losing"

This was after 15 minutes of me going 1 hand - 2 hands - sit out and her getting angry about that but still not leaving, but she was grumbling about it every single time i changed hands. That comment pushed her to leave. And I'm not denying the fact I was being an asshole. (and btw, at this point the table cleared out 5 minutes ago except for her, and of course she's the one in the seat I needed, and the relief dealer was leaving in about 2 minutes and I didn't want the main dealer to see any of this crap) I've worked with other players and they use similar tactics to get people off games. Change hands, play stupid, harshly criticize ploppies on their play. Counting is totally different. For that there isn't 1 particular seat in the entire casino that you need for your play. After I get the seat I need then I can be the most pleasant person at the table. Noone knows that I was just (literally) breathing down someone's neck 5 minutes ago. After all, at that point I AM having a good time. I'm only miserable when I can't find a game or can't get on a game.

If my mom was sitting at a blackjack table first thing I would say to her is what the f is wrong with you? If I saw her buying in I'd take her money and rip it up. I wouldn't support my family throwing their money in the garbage. My dad was telling me how he played roulette one time. I cut him off and told him playing roulette is stupid. (And for the record, my parents quit going to the casinos a long time ago. They realized how stupid it is) I just can't have a conversation about non-advantage gambling. I always tell my friends gambling is for suckers / the stupid.
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Well, just what did you say!? First you say you said SHE is stupid. Now you say you didn't say that,grrrr. Next you say to your family, do as I say, not as I do! That is not clever. It is ..........
 
P

pit15

Well-Known Member
#63
#63
gamblingghost said:
Well, just what did you say!? First you say you said SHE is stupid. Now you say you didn't say that,grrrr. Next you say to your family, do as I say, not as I do! That is not clever. It is ..........
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I SAY that gambling is stupid, but I don't gamble. So what's the problem?
 
psyduck

psyduck

Well-Known Member
#65
#65
pit15 said:
There ARE teams who do things like spill a drink on somebody. Insulting someone's play is a pretty standard tactic to get someone off a game.
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Sooner or later you will run into someone who will teach you a lesson that you will never live to forget! CP will be one of them!
 
T

tthree

Banned
#66
#66
If you intentionally gain added information about the hole card and use it, it is cheating. If you use added information about the hole card gained innocently it is not. I don't make the laws. After you are caught the correlation of your play and wins to that/those seats will convict you.
 
P

pit15

Well-Known Member
#68
#68
psyduck said:
Sooner or later you will run into someone who will teach you a lesson that you will never live to forget! CP will be one of them!
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That's why I DON'T go as far as spilling a drink on someone. I said some teams do things like that. I don't go that far.

tthree, bribing a dealer would be cheating, marking the cards would be cheating, sitting in a particular seat is not illegal.
 
G

gamblingghost

Well-Known Member
#69
#69
pit15 said:
That's why I DON'T go as far as spilling a drink on someone. I said some teams do things like that. I don't go that far.

tthree, bribing a dealer would be cheating, marking the cards would be cheating, sitting in a particular seat is not illegal.
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Well that's nice to know. But, you will stand close, breathe on a player,
touch them, fart on them, insult them, lord knows what else you will do to
them. But, you won't spill a drink on them , sweet, real sweet.
 
T

tthree

Banned
#70
#70
Sitting in a particular seat with the intention of purposefully gaining hole card information and then using it is cheating. If you were coincidentally in the seat and used the information it is not cheating. That is why the correlation of your wins to your favorite seat is what will convict you.
 
Lonesome Gambler

Lonesome Gambler

Well-Known Member
#71
#71
tthree said:
Sitting in a particular seat with the intention of purposefully gaining hole card information and then using it is cheating. If you were coincidentally in the seat and used the information it is not cheating. That is why the correlation of your wins to your favorite seat is what will convict you.
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Don't be ridiculous. Seeing the hole card by accident is not cheating, but seeing it on purpose is? And in case you're wondering, the law is pretty clear on this. Legal; not cheating—period.
 
J

johndoe

Well-Known Member
#72
#72
You guys really need to get a grip.

pit15 is definitely being an obnoxious a-hole in his efforts to shoo ploppies out of favored seats, but at least he's honest about it. There's a moral line there, but the reality is that seat is worth hundreds or thousands of dollars to him. Plenty of people do this stuff and worse for that kind of payout (or less). It's awful, but for big $, it's at least understandable.

As for considering this kind of play cheating, you're flat wrong. It's been thoroughly established that what pit15 doing is completely legal.

Both aspects are purely up to the individual player. If you don't like it, or don't approve, and it crosses your moral boundary, don't do it. But it's not illegal.
 
tallmanvegas

tallmanvegas

Well-Known Member
#73
#73
This conversation is reminding me of that scene in the movie Casino, when the a-hole cowboy wouldn't take his feet off the table and Deniro calls his security and tells them to open the door with his head:laugh:
Tallman
 
G

gamblingghost

Well-Known Member
#74
#74
johndoe said:
You guys really need to get a grip.

pit15 is definitely being an obnoxious a-hole in his efforts to shoo ploppies out of favored seats, but at least he's honest about it. There's a moral line there, but the reality is that seat is worth hundreds or thousands of dollars to him. Plenty of people do this stuff and worse for that kind of payout (or less). It's awful, but for big $, it's at least understandable.

As for considering this kind of play cheating, you're flat wrong. It's been thoroughly established that what pit15 doing is completely legal.

Both aspects are purely up to the individual player. If you don't like it, or don't approve, and it crosses your moral boundary, don't do it. But it's not illegal.
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hmm, you want it both ways eh? You seem to be saying if I'm honest about treating people like crap then it is ok? If it is for big bucks then it is understandable and alright?:confused: At what point is self-centered behavior unhealthy?
 
J

johndoe

Well-Known Member
#75
#75
gamblingghost said:
hmm, you want it both ways eh? You seem to be saying if I'm honest about treating people like crap then it is ok? If it is for big bucks then it is understandable and alright?:confused: At what point is self-centered behavior unhealthy?
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I'm saying that people have differing lines for standards of behavior when potentially large money is at stake. I'm pretty sure most people have a price at some level. Compared to other stories I've heard, pit15's behavior is on the gentle end.

(It's probably unhealthy at all levels regardless. Part of the cost involved in this kind of game.)
 
Friendo

Friendo

Well-Known Member
#76
#76
Informative Thread - Thanks!

Great read, folks - a thorough exegesis of the definition and subtleties of Oscar's Grind. This discussion does this site proud. Hell, it does the Internet - nay, the whole human race - proud!

Like a golden shaft of inspiration shot between dark clouds parted just for the occasion, this thread is a flash of heaven's light on an otherwise dark and gloomy world.

For the remainder of our history as a species, men and women will remember this thread as a standard of reasoned discussion and gravitas.

Just awesome!
 
T

tthree

Banned
#77
#77
He better pray he doesn't do that to somebody with me. If he did it to me I just wouldn't leave no matter what if I figured out he wanted my seat. If he did something like that to any meek friends of mine it would be the last time he ever does that. There are people you just dont do that to and not live to regret it. Maybe there is an exception to that as indicated by never being able to regret it. Some people only care about money. They would sell out their own mother for the right price. Others treat people right no matter what the cost. Pit15 let everyone know where he falls in this spectrum. Watch your back if you are his friend. You never know when money will motivate betrayal.
 
P

pit15

Well-Known Member
#78
#78
tthree said:
He better pray he doesn't do that to somebody with me. If he did it to me I just wouldn't leave no matter what if I figured out he wanted my seat. If he did something like that to any meek friends of mine it would be the last time he ever does that. There are people you just dont do that to and not live to regret it. Maybe there is an exception to that as indicated by never being able to regret it. Some people only care about money. They would sell out their own mother for the right price. Others treat people right no matter what the cost. Pit15 let everyone know where he falls in this spectrum. Watch your back if you are his friend. You never know when money will motivate betrayal.
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Actually I've never ripped off a friend. I've worked with other APers while chopping the action and never even thought of intentionally under reporting a win or over reporting a loss (in fact I'm EXTRA careful about making sure I'm tracking my buy ins accurately). I'm about the most honest person you'll find in that aspect. Of course, you can make whatever assumptions you want.

Like I said, you never been in my situation. How you view things change drastically when you DO NOT GET YOUR PAYCHECK unless you get that seat. The dumbass ploppy can go lose their 3 - 7% at any seat in the casino. I can only make my 2.4 - 3.5% in 1 seat. It's not like counting where you can get a little bit of an extra edge if you can get people to leave during plus counts or what not (which doesn't warrant taking heat to get rid of people). For hole carding you make ZERO unless you get the seat. In the AP world there are plenty of people who go to much further extremes then I do to get people off a game. And btw, whoever said I was touching people, I don't go that far. Everything I do is generally NOT noticed by the pit/dealer or any other players at the table.
 
P

pit15

Well-Known Member
#79
#79
Oh, and the other players I've worked with, they're some of the biggest scumbags in the world from a ploppy's perspective, but I trust them fully, and they're very nice people aside from the times they need to run some asshole off a game. One of them got into an argument with a ploppy while I forced them to bet every single hand (if they didn't put a bet in the circle I would start asking for the seat.. then they would put a bet down) to set up a very uncomfortable situation.

Anyone who's serious about this doesn't like standing around all shift with their dick in their hand. If you're not placing bets you're not earning your paycheck. If you look in beyond counting, there's a lot of ways listed in it to get someone off a game, a lot of those methods are pretty standard in the industry.
 
G

gamblingghost

Well-Known Member
#80
#80
pit15 said:
Oh, and the other players I've worked with, they're some of the biggest scumbags in the world from a ploppy's perspective, but I trust them fully, and they're very nice people aside from the times they need to run some asshole off a game. One of them got into an argument with a ploppy while I forced them to bet every single hand (if they didn't put a bet in the circle I would start asking for the seat.. then they would put a bet down) to set up a very uncomfortable situation.

Anyone who's serious about this doesn't like standing around all shift with their dick in their hand. If you're not placing bets you're not earning your paycheck. If you look in beyond counting, there's a lot of ways listed in it to get someone off a game, a lot of those methods are pretty standard in the industry.
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What a coincidence! That book is written by a guy named GROSS Jean!:laugh:
 
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