whats the max u have won in one casino before being banned?

[RJT]

Again, it is amazing to me that people can study and memorize BS, card counting systems, and the like but cannot comprehend a post. As I have said several times I am more than happy to answer any question you may have. I have not recieved a PM from you or bo-jack or any other critic. But I have from others and their questions were answered.

Funny, from this end it seems to be you that cannot read - neither myself nor bojack would require any information you might have and asking a question may be leading in of itself. But if you are what you claim you are, surely you'd know something other than the very very generic information you've posted that could have been found in any of dozens of locations on the web. If you were able to present something even vaguely off the track, the story could be verified by other people who were round at the time. You seem strangely reluctant to do so though....

RJT.

 

[Machinist]

Again, it is amazing to me that people can study and memorize BS, card counting systems, and the like but cannot comprehend a post. As I have said several times I am more than happy to answer any question you may have. I have not recieved a PM from you or bo-jack or any other critic. But I have from others and their questions were answered.

Come on Exgriffinman!!!!! Give us something so we can believe! Something that when read, a few of the guys on this site will say ,"yep he was there and part of it, in the trenches so to speak.
We CAN handle the truth........really ,,,,,we can....

Mac

 

[aslan]

Again, it is amazing to me that people can study and memorize BS, card counting systems, and the like but cannot comprehend a post. As I have said several times I am more than happy to answer any question you may have. I have not recieved a PM from you or bo-jack or any other critic. But I have from others and their questions were answered.

But you were given an open invitation by both to offer a story by PM that is not commonly known by the general public. A strong offense is a good defense, but in this case, I'm not buying it either. PM Bojack or RJT, and if they vouch for your authenticity, I'll believe, as well. We trust them; we don't even know you. And why the personal attack, as if the two of them are stupid? Like I said before, we know then and neither of them are stupid. You, OTOH, are an unknown quantity.

 

[Dyepaintball12]

Yes it is, but remember counter surveillance used the same tactics as surveillance or griffin or other agencies...Get the information you need, No matter how you get it.

Ah, so Surveillance and Griffin are the ones doing the illegal activities, not the APs. Excellent.

 

[exgriffinman]

A reponse

Come on Exgriffinman!!!!! Give us something so we can believe! Something that when read, a few of the guys on this site will say ,"yep he was there and part of it, in the trenches so to speak.
We CAN handle the truth........really ,,,,,we can....

Mac

Some people are sensative and touchy, so I guess this is what they want... When M.I.T. first started, These kids were hitting high end casinos with alot of money. Like most teams, It is possible to go undetected in several casinos due to lax surveillance and pit personnel. One thing that kept coming up were the photos of these individuals who were winning big. Then in stronger houses they were pegged as card counters. More photos were gathered of the same individuals as well as their aliases. For a long time we could not fit the pieces of the puzzle together, They were all young and well funded. It wasnt till later we found a common denominator, They were all from Cambridge and close surrounding areas. (Putting one and one together, MIT yearbooks were ordered and this confirmed most of theyre identities. In fact a photo of Michael A. could not be obtained...griffin used his yearbook photo in Vol.4) <thats a tidbit!

An original member was a tall asian male named Johnny C. He was very good and had achived a supervisory rank on the team. In fact his face was so hot that he relied on disguises. This one night I was called because MIT was in town and at an off strip casino. One thing we learned about theyre type of team play was...not only was it important to identify the counters quickly but who else wass hanging around the pits. Thhis night Johnny was there, But I didnt recognise him quickly, what I saw was a tall asian woman with large lips and big teeth...Oh my it was johnny c. in drag!! (Biometrica beta tested its facial recognition software with images of johnny and a civilian woman, these were the only photos for the betatest, it didnt work...<tidbit)

Another time a caino had a new CM, He didn't believe in backing off counters, he flat-bet them. This night it was Daniel counting and Andrew acting as big player. Andrew was identified right off the bat and surveillance notified the pit. They flat-bet him. He asked if he could play multiple hands and the pit said yes (haha) so he started playing $1,000 a hand...when the count was favorable the other players on the game sat out and he spread to five spots. This continued for hours and the pit allowed it. He subequently won over 150K (it may have been more, cant remember) and subsequently the CM was fired a week later.

And finally for today (I have things to do) Seymon D. always wore his ballcap backwards, why I dont know. It gave him away several times. This is just the tip of the iceburg, more to come later.

 

[Dyepaintball12]

Another time a caino had a new CM, He didn't believe in backing off counters, he flat-bet them. This night it was Daniel counting and Andrew acting as big player. Andrew was identified right off the bat and surveillance notified the pit. They flat-bet him. He asked if he could play multiple hands and the pit said yes (haha) so he started playing $1,000 a hand...when the count was favorable the other players on the game sat out and he spread to five spots. This continued for hours and the pit allowed it. He subequently won over 150K (it may have been more, cant remember) and subsequently the CM was fired a week later.

That. Is. Awesome.

 

[Bojack1]

Some people are sensative and touchy, so I guess this is what they want... When M.I.T. first started, These kids were hitting high end casinos with alot of money. Like most teams, It is possible to go undetected in several casinos due to lax surveillance and pit personnel. One thing that kept coming up were the photos of these individuals who were winning big. Then in stronger houses they were pegged as card counters. More photos were gathered of the same individuals as well as their aliases. For a long time we could not fit the pieces of the puzzle together, They were all young and well funded. It wasnt till later we found a common denominator, They were all from Cambridge and close surrounding areas. (Putting one and one together, MIT yearbooks were ordered and this confirmed most of theyre identities. In fact a photo of Michael A. could not be obtained...griffin used his yearbook photo in Vol.4) <thats a tidbit!

An original member was a tall asian male named Johnny C. He was very good and had achived a supervisory rank on the team. In fact his face was so hot that he relied on disguises. This one night I was called because MIT was in town and at an off strip casino. One thing we learned about theyre type of team play was...not only was it important to identify the counters quickly but who else wass hanging around the pits. Thhis night Johnny was there, But I didnt recognise him quickly, what I saw was a tall asian woman with large lips and big teeth...Oh my it was johnny c. in drag!! (Biometrica beta tested its facial recognition software with images of johnny and a civilian woman, these were the only photos for the betatest, it didnt work...<tidbit)

Another time a caino had a new CM, He didn't believe in backing off counters, he flat-bet them. This night it was Daniel counting and Andrew acting as big player. Andrew was identified right off the bat and surveillance notified the pit. They flat-bet him. He asked if he could play multiple hands and the pit said yes (haha) so he started playing $1,000 a hand...when the count was favorable the other players on the game sat out and he spread to five spots. This continued for hours and the pit allowed it. He subequently won over 150K (it may have been more, cant remember) and subsequently the CM was fired a week later.

And finally for today (I have things to do) Seymon D. always wore his ballcap backwards, why I dont know. It gave him away several times. This is just the tip of the iceburg, more to come later.

Ok, paragraph 1. I thought I was reading an excerpt out of BDTH. The tidbit of Mike Aponte is also public knowledge. He posted his own Griffin page on his blog. It shows his yearbook photo, as well as one of him in a hat.

Paragraph 2. JC In drag story has been told before many times. He even dressed that way for the BJ ball because it was so widely known. There are MANY more stories about him and his wife. Are you familiar with her? You should be. There are more stories not commonly known to the public about them, you got any of them? In the interest of John's privacy I will comment no more on him but I don't think he's too worried about a "hot" face.

Paragraph 3. I honestly do not know of this one.

Finally, Semyon only had 3 ballcaps, what were they? By the way, he wore them because his hair was thinning and it bothered him, and he wore them backwards because at the time thats what was considered cool and in and Semyon was tragically geeky and he tried a little too hard.

I am going to leave this topic alone now. Maybe you are who you claim to be, maybe not, it doesn't matter. You're advice is fairly sound, albeit far from insider knowledge, but nonetheless it doesn't seem harmful in any way. Enjoy the board.

 

[Machinist]

Good enough for Bojack, good enough for me.....Thanks Exgriffinman!!!! No further questions..... for now....
I look forward to your posts.
Machinist

 

[Katweezel]

Yes it is, but remember counter surveillance used the same tactics as surveillance or griffin or other agencies...Get the information you need, No matter how you get it.

That was your reply to Dye's Q about breaking into hotel rooms. Obviously this issue is a very sensitive one. Pro surveillance commiting felonies to get what they need. Hmm, I find this pretty disturbing. I see you retired 8 years ago, and I guess you still have contacts in the industry? But as far as you know, was this dark practice pretty much widespread then? And is it common in today's Vegas world?

 

[BOND]

ExGriffinman, interesting stories..

Can you highlight inaccuracies in the movie "21" that are not public knowledge?

How accurate and useful is facial recondition software? What are the best ways to fool facial recondition software? Some sources say that simply putting on a baseball cap can fool the facial recondition software.

Also, do you have some more interesting stories?

 

[Gamblor]

Can you highlight inaccuracies in the movie "21" that are not public knowledge?

Hey, I never worked for Griffin but can answer this one. All of it was innaccurate

 

[WRX]

Come on, guys, jumping on exgriffinman and suggesting, based only on speculation, that he's an impostor is rude, rude, rude. I mean, he comes here and puts no little effort into sharing information and offering sound advice. To me, it wouldn't even matter that much if he weren't who he says he is, because everything that he's posted has been well written and should be helpful to players lacking extensive experience on the subjects he's addressed. Is this the welcome you want to be giving new participants in these boards? Why someone who formerly worked in surveillance would be motivated to come here and share information has been questioned. To which I say, what's the motivation for an experienced and skilled ADVANTAGE PLAYER to share knowledge? Some people like helping others. People coming from a spectrum of backgrounds. Please don't punish anyone for altruism.

 

[RJT]

Come on, guys, jumping on exgriffinman and suggesting, based only on speculation, that he's an impostor is rude, rude, rude. I mean, he comes here and puts no little effort into sharing information and offering sound advice. To me, it wouldn't even matter that much if he weren't who he says he is, because everything that he's posted has been well written and should be helpful to players lacking extensive experience on the subjects he's addressed. Is this the welcome you want to be giving new participants in these boards? Why someone who formerly worked in surveillance would be motivated to come here and share information has been questioned. To which I say, what's the motivation for an experienced and skilled ADVANTAGE PLAYER to share knowledge? Some people like helping others. People coming from a spectrum of backgrounds. Please don't punish anyone for altruism.

Extraordinary claims require extraordinary proof and i don't believe many posters on AP websites can genuinely claim altruism as a motive. I feel that many people posting portray themselves to be far more than they are and the advice they give is similarly naive and potentially damaging. That's just me though.

I would hasten to add that i'm not saying one way or the other what griff is, simply that i found it odd that he was reluctant to back up his story. 3 out of the 4 bits of information given are very much common knowledge, the 4th i've no clue about. But to be transparent, all my knowledge comes from Bojack with regard to MIT, so anything i can say is pretty much redundant after his post.

When you are going to take advice that is going to influence financial decisions you should always be confident that the person giving the advice is what they say they are.

RJT.

 

[Machinist]

WRX, I'm in KJ's camp. What if my site name was X-IRS, my specialty "was" gambling tax evasion. And by the way I've been on both sides of the fence. So if you have any questions fire away!!
I wonder how well that would go over on this site?
Anyways, exgriffin stood his ground well, as I'm sure he knew he might have to with such a name and stories.
Again, I'm looking forward to his opinions on gaming matters.

Machinist

 

[exgriffinman]

ExGriffinman, interesting stories..

Can you highlight inaccuracies in the movie "21" that are not public knowledge?

How accurate and useful is facial recondition software? What are the best ways to fool facial recondition software? Some sources say that simply putting on a baseball cap can fool the facial recondition software.

Also, do you have some more interesting stories?

Remember, I was not an MIT member, However I did see the movie for the first time two days ago, I laughed through alot of it. Maybe 3 to 5% can be accurate...But this is my opinion.

As for facial recognition software, A company called Visage (french for face) developed facial recogniton in the early 90's for government agencies like large city welfare departments to sniff out repeating claimants. Two men who worked for Visage out of Boston ironically branched out and started Biometrica. Biometrica relocated to Vegas and started marketing to casinos. They had one problem, No database. They approached Griffin for theirs, but they refused. They eventually obtained and built a database using information from a Griffin employee who later left and joined Biometrica.

It was Beta-tested at the Stratosphere with mediocre results. I have used the software and at the time it was a good database builder and the fact they combined the SIN network with the software was a plus. But the actual technology didn't work well and I had dinner the other night with an old friend who has access to facial recognition and he said it still doesnt work well.

As for fooling the software, The software needs a full frontal image to work correctly, it most cases several images. Ballcaps will throw it off as is it difficult to get a decent photo when your wearing one and you keep your head down.

I still believe a talented face chaser is your worst enemy.

Keep on playing

EXGM

 

[ekimlacks]

When you are going to take advice that is going to influence financial decisions you should always be confident that the person giving the advice is what they say they are.

RJT.

I don't think you should be confident on who the person giving the advice is, but rather that the advice is sound.

If someone says splitting tens causes unwanted attention sometimes. It shouldn't matter if that person was claiming to be a CC, PC, or God. It can be validated.

Instead of jumping on exgriffinman, I would research some of his advice and make sure it is sound and then decide whether I wanted to listen to him or not in the future.

I'm not saying that anyone is in the wrong for having their suspicions, but I'd keep it to the PM or just politely warn everyone that they should find out for themselves if this information is sound before heeding his advice.

 

[RJT]

I don't think you should be confident on who the person giving the advice is, but rather that the advice is sound.

If someone says splitting tens causes unwanted attention sometimes. It shouldn't matter if that person was claiming to be a CC, PC, or God. It can be validated.

That would be fine if good advice followed a common sense template or if quality information was easily available. As it is, best practice - while often a personal choice - is regularly counter intuitive and the internet - on this topic even more than most - is absolutely overloaded with garbage. Establishing what is good advice and what is not is a tough job for anyone who hasn't been around for a good length of time.

RJT.

 

[ekimlacks]

That would be fine if good advice followed a common sense template or if quality information was easily available. As it is, best practice - while often a personal choice - is regularly counter intuitive and the internet - on this topic even more than most - is absolutely overloaded with garbage. Establishing what is good advice and what is not is a tough job for anyone who hasn't been around for a good length of time.

RJT.

You raise excellent points. Heeding advice over the internet can be tough. Especially when you have to sort through all the crap to get to the good stuff and if you're unsure of who would post quality information.

That's also why I said:

I would research some of his advice and make sure it is sound and then decide whether I wanted to listen to him or not in the future.

Easier said than done, but no one ever said this was easy.

 

[RJT]

I'd agree with that to an extent, but this circumstance presents the issues of a low post count so little to judge competence on. In situations where someone unknown turns up claiming to be an expert in their field, given the lack of supporting evidence, it's usually easiest to ask direct questions regarding the credentials they claim, even if they seem rude. In this particular field it's alway better to be too cautious (or skeptical) than too hasty to trust.

RJT.

 

[Sucker]

As for facial recognition software, A company called Visage (french for face) developed facial recogniton in the early 90's for government agencies like large city welfare departments to sniff out repeating claimants. Two men who worked for Visage out of Boston ironically branched out and started Biometrica. Biometrica relocated to Vegas and started marketing to casinos. They had one problem, No database. They approached Griffin for theirs, but they refused. They eventually obtained and built a database using information from a Griffin employee who later left and joined Biometrica.

I attended a gaming technology convention about 5 years ago in which Griffin had a booth where they were demonstrating the Biometrica technology. The way it works - or at least the way it worked at the time was; the camera would focus on the subject, and the computer would pull up about a dozen or so images of the people in their database who MOST closely resembled the subject in question.

As a test, I stepped in front of the camera and of the 12 images it pulled up, it did NOT find a picture of me. (and my picture definitely IS in Griffin's database, no question about it) :grin:

As for fooling the software, The software needs a full frontal image to work correctly, it most cases several images. Ballcaps will throw it off as is it difficult to get a decent photo when your wearing one and you keep your head down.

Yes, I always wear a cap (as do MOST APs, of course).
I've also been told that wearing eyeglasses WITHOUT anti-glare coating helps. I ALWAYS refuse the coating when I get new glasses; so far (though I can't say with 100% certainty) I don't believe facial recognition technology has ever gotten me busted YET.