moo321
Well-Known Member
What Sonny said.
Do I have a Good or Bad Idea?? Team Play
- Thread starter White Guy
- Start date
What Sonny said.
Interesting. Would this not apply to Wonging and/or signaling team members of the count as well?
ccibball50
Well-Known Member
I have actually talked with a lawyer about this. Your distance from the table does not change anything. You can watch backcount and wong in and out. However it is up for grabs wether or not the transfer of information from one person to another is legal.
Something for thought. I was sitting in a poker game. 2 people were speaking a different language. Well luckily one other person at that table spoke the their same language. They said "I have aces" Only one person could understand and called them out on it. This person was rich. Does that mean I can sue them?
callipygian
Well-Known Member
Even if you could, I think proving your case would be difficult, unless you somehow got the hand saved as evidence. Otherwise, the defense that they were speaking in another language talking about dinner the next day would probably hold.
signaling
the previous information regarding signaling in players being a grey area is correct. the general rule in many states is that it is illegal to use information not available to everyone else playing the game. by this standard card counting is, of course, legal. the question becomes do you go over the line when you give information legally obtained to someone else, ie. the big player. the focus would be whether the transfer of information to the non-player constituted use of information not available to all players. personally, i do not think it is illegal by this standard. however, statutes vary by state. also, i do not know of a clear ruling on this, some hick local da may charge you with this and even if you're right it may take appealing to higher courts during which time you will be in jail.
i say this to point out it could be ruled illegal in some places
:cool2:
the preceding does not constitute legal advice:grin:
the previous information regarding signaling in players being a grey area is correct. the general rule in many states is that it is illegal to use information not available to everyone else playing the game. by this standard card counting is, of course, legal. the question becomes do you go over the line when you give information legally obtained to someone else, ie. the big player. the focus would be whether the transfer of information to the non-player constituted use of information not available to all players. personally, i do not think it is illegal by this standard. however, statutes vary by state. also, i do not know of a clear ruling on this, some hick local da may charge you with this and even if you're right it may take appealing to higher courts during which time you will be in jail.
i say this to point out it could be ruled illegal in some places
:cool2:
the preceding does not constitute legal advice:grin:
ccibball50
Well-Known Member
The hand was on tape. The manager came over made the guy turn his cards over and kicked him out of the poker room. The camera had it on tape.
moo321
Well-Known Member
It's not up in the air. Exchanging the count IS legal. It's considered commonly available information. Read about the Tommy Hylands team's run-in with casino windsor.
But a player "spooking", that is a player off the table signaling to a player on the table is ILLEGAL. There is case law on this. It's also kind of moot, because the biggest opportunity to do this was when they used to manually check for a blackjack.
ccibball50
Well-Known Member
actually it is a state by state decision. It is all about how the judge interpretes the law.
the law in my state reads something like this. It legal to use any information available that is available to everyone at the table without using any gadgets or technology to gain an advantage. So anyone can count its up to the player to decide if they want to count. The info is available at every table but only few choose to use it.
All in all it is up to the judge.
Start me up.
I'm honest, retired and bored. I can min bet 12 hrs/day if you want. Count too. Won't even drink when I'm on the clock.
Maybe not that honest since I'm willing to work with you on saving all those employer taxes. Up to you.
You can even keep all my "profit-sharing" bonus too if you want.
Hopefully this eliminates alot of the risks you are worried about.
I'll even throw in a personal guarantee of re-imbursing you for any min-bet losses exceeding 3 stan dev.
Seriously. When can I start?
:laugh: Seriously?? You wouldn't mind betting min bets for min wage under the table no profit share and even reimburse some of the loss?? And you can count already... Damn that is a hard one to pass up.. Any felonies or worse yet jobs at casinos going to show up in your background check?? haha.. Oh and what is min wage in your state?? Man I had it all wrong retired people would be way better than college kids.. More time, committment and less heat at the tables.
Let me think for a second... Be paid to do something I love to do, with someone else's money and be guaranteed to have more money in my pocket than when I started.
Thinking. Thinking... Well, allrighty then. I'm in
I'll re-imburse any of my min-bet losses that exceed 3 Stan dev whenever they do at any point in time. If, later, they fall below that, I want re-imbursed lol.
Just an assurance to you I'm not stealing you blind or something.
No worries. I'm just giving away something that sounds good but won't likely happen anyway.
No convicted felonies by the Grace of God lol.
Went to $7.50 Jan 1.
No credit - a day's wages for a day's work payable in cash at the end of each day whether you win or lose.
For as long as you have money to pay me.
And I sincerely hope you get kissed by the Hand of God and Shot in the Ass with Luck. That's a win/win.
You on the East Coast?
I can start Monday, Sat in West Va.
Going to Steeler game Sunday and kick those Baltimore Raisins as*.
moo321
Well-Known Member
Wait, which one are you referring to? Counting is most definitely not illegal anywhere in the US, regardless of what the judge thinks.
ccibball50
Well-Known Member
Right counting is not because the presidence was set years ago, I am talking about spoofing.
sagefr0g
Well-Known Member
sign me up. i'll even go back to for really counting orthodox so help me God. and i'll keep an eye on Kasi make sure he stays off the bottle.
if it's retiree's you want, well i am.
ccibball50
Well-Known Member
Right counting is not because the presidence was set years ago, I am talking about spooking.
Besides I think its legal too. Using signs to signal someone when a count is good. That information is still readily available to everyone at the table. It is no different that someone who can't speak, using sign language to tell someone else the count. Hell I can talk loud to the person next to me and yell the count is +6. My freind hears, he comes over and bets 3 hands at the max. That cant be illigal according to you.
Great - a fellow employee already ready to rat to the boss.
Anyway, I've been thinking that a min flat-betting card-counter maybe could use a few drinks here and there for a little cover camo so they don't catch on. We'll see if it ends up in our manual lol.
And if you start that "fuzzy-counting" stuff, I'm telling.
But, White Guy, when this guy turns in his timecard at the end of a session and it says 36 hours, you can trust him. You can work this guy like a rented mule. He's like The Terminator of BJ. He never stops.
What's your longest session anyway
sagefr0g
Well-Known Member
Great - a fellow employee already ready to rat to the boss.
Anyway, I've been thinking that a min flat-betting card-counter maybe could use a few drinks here and there for a little cover camo so they don't catch on. We'll see if it ends up in our manual lol.
And if you start that "fuzzy-counting" stuff, I'm telling.
But, White Guy, when this guy turns in his timecard at the end of a session and it says 36 hours, you can trust him. You can work this guy like a rented mule. He's like The Terminator of BJ. He never stops.
What's your longest session anyway
i forget, i think i posted it some where, it might have been 21 hours straight over three joints. one of those 'i'm gonna win my money back even if it kills me marathon sessions.' of course i failed.
as i recall i didn't stop to eat, probably i think i had a couple of cups of coffee was it. it finally dawned on me, the big problem with those sort of sessions (for me) is the tendency to play all through so many zero and negative crap rounds. gets to be a one step forward, three steps back sort of ordeal. just if i'd of wonged out a lot i'd of probably been able to dig my way out of the hole, is how i figure it now.