Indices
- Thread starter Billy C1
- Start date
Depends, your kind of game is the key: ( level 2 strategy)
1 deck: 0.5%
2 d: 0.35%
6 d: 0.2%
8 d: 0.15%
it`s also depend in your strategy, differents strategies have differentes PC,, the most PC and most number of indices you play the most important the indices are.
Rules also change the importance of indices the most actions the game give to you ( LS, Split , Double ) the most important the indices are.
Also you can check with sims. I play with 45 indices
Daniel
1 deck: 0.5%
2 d: 0.35%
6 d: 0.2%
8 d: 0.15%
it`s also depend in your strategy, differents strategies have differentes PC,, the most PC and most number of indices you play the most important the indices are.
Rules also change the importance of indices the most actions the game give to you ( LS, Split , Double ) the most important the indices are.
Also you can check with sims. I play with 45 indices
Daniel
FLASH1296
Well-Known Member
I use 79 indices in 2 deck games.
Admittedly, most of these are of little value,
and many of them are negative indices
which do no more than reduce my losses
at negative true counts.
What you need to know is, that in a shoe game,
perfect bet-sizing and optimal bet-ramping is
far far more important than playing indices.
Admittedly, most of these are of little value,
and many of them are negative indices
which do no more than reduce my losses
at negative true counts.
What you need to know is, that in a shoe game,
perfect bet-sizing and optimal bet-ramping is
far far more important than playing indices.
Automatic Monkey
Banned
16 vs. 10 and 12 vs. 3 are the other two powerful ones. I believe that in most games those two plays plus insurance give you more than every other index play put together.
FLASH1296
Well-Known Member
My reply. More than you expected.
Theory of Blackjack, 6th ed. by Peter Griffin gives reliable
values (in thousandths of a percent) for each hand matchup.
On page 30 is the 1 deck table.
On page 229 is a 4 deck table.
On page 230 is a 6 deck table.
Utilizing only the SIX DECK table:
16 vs 10 is worth 47/1000 %
Insurance is worth 38/1000 %
15 vs 10 is worth 13/1000 %
13 vs 2, 12 vs 4, and 12 vs 6 are all worth 12/1000 %
14 vs 10 and 12 vs 5 are both worth 9/1000 %
13 vs 3 and 12 vs 3 are both worth 8/1000 %
16 vs 7, 16 vs 9, and 13 vs 4 are all worth 6/1000 %
The rest are virtually worthless.
NOTE: In a single deck game perfect Surrender decisions is worth a powerful .16%.
That figure drops as the number of decks increases; BUT the actual value to a Card Counter
is twice or thrice as much - as surrender decisions effect large bets disproportionately.
Theory of Blackjack, 6th ed. by Peter Griffin gives reliable
values (in thousandths of a percent) for each hand matchup.
On page 30 is the 1 deck table.
On page 229 is a 4 deck table.
On page 230 is a 6 deck table.
Utilizing only the SIX DECK table:
16 vs 10 is worth 47/1000 %
Insurance is worth 38/1000 %
15 vs 10 is worth 13/1000 %
13 vs 2, 12 vs 4, and 12 vs 6 are all worth 12/1000 %
14 vs 10 and 12 vs 5 are both worth 9/1000 %
13 vs 3 and 12 vs 3 are both worth 8/1000 %
16 vs 7, 16 vs 9, and 13 vs 4 are all worth 6/1000 %
The rest are virtually worthless.
NOTE: In a single deck game perfect Surrender decisions is worth a powerful .16%.
That figure drops as the number of decks increases; BUT the actual value to a Card Counter
is twice or thrice as much - as surrender decisions effect large bets disproportionately.
Automatic Monkey
Banned
That can't be right. Where are the doubling indices? They're worth far more than crazy plays like 16 vs. 7 and 13 vs. 4.
kewljason
Well-Known Member
In Blackjack Attack, Schlesinger, points out that Griffin's numbers are flawed because they are all based on a flat bet amount. Most counter will have significantly more money on the table at the departure point for insurance making that by far the most important play with a gain of 117/1000 of a percent, followed by 16vs 10 at 53/1000 and 15 vs 10 at 37/1000 and then the splitting of 10's vs 5 and 6 at 17/1000 of a percent. All of these plays with the exception of 16 vs 10 are weighed more heavily because they occur when there are larger bets an the table, much like your reasoning as to why surrender decisions effect large bets disproportionately.
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Someone have a chat with correct indicies play following the count?
I use the following, but it doesn't seem to have 14 vs 10 ?
http://www.blackjackscience.com/Chart_Numbers_Chart.html (Archive copy)
Thanks
Ming
I use the following, but it doesn't seem to have 14 vs 10 ?
http://www.blackjackscience.com/Chart_Numbers_Chart.html (Archive copy)
Thanks
Ming
UK-21
Well-Known Member
I've looked in "Professional Blackjack" and there is no index for this play in Hi-Lo. I think it would be such a high TC (+9 or higher?), with such a low probability of it ever happening, it's not worth bothering with it - hit it every time. Flash, where did you get your figures from?
As wonging out is so difficult where I play in the UK, I have learned indices down to TC-6 as a means to offset (slightly) having to play at a severe disadvantage (HE of possibly 2%+).
blackjackstudent
Well-Known Member
I think 14 vs 10 should be hit or surrendered if the TC is greater than 3.
http://www.card-counting.com/cvcxonlineviewer3.htm
You can find where to deviate from basic strategy at the relevant TC but Ilustrious 18 and Fab 4 (for Hi-Lo counters) shows the most important indices to deviate from BS in shoe games.
I am assuming with pitch games, more indices must be memorized
http://www.card-counting.com/cvcxonlineviewer3.htm
You can find where to deviate from basic strategy at the relevant TC but Ilustrious 18 and Fab 4 (for Hi-Lo counters) shows the most important indices to deviate from BS in shoe games.
I am assuming with pitch games, more indices must be memorized
