6:5 Blackjack is awesome!!
- Thread starter Jack_Black
- Start date
Automatic Monkey
Banned
Much less than 1:50 too. If you're in an environment where heat is not an issue, and you have a choice between counting bad shoe games and counting 6:5 SD with decent pen and conditions, you will be able to get more money out of the 6:5 game providing you don't try to play it like a real blackjack game. It needs special techniques just like any other BJ derivative.
I myself prefer to not have to make such a choice.
Jack_Black
Well-Known Member
Wow, I really got the pros to come out of the woodwork for this one.
You really are over-tipping. $5 is over 1% of $300. What's your EV?
Well, if you tip $5 after winning a big bet you will give up about $12.50 per hour. With an EV of only $18 per hour you are giving up almost all of your profit. You are tipping 1.6% of your bet when your advantage isn’t much more than that. If the 6:5 payout didn’t kill your profit, the tipping probably will.
This tip rate is for a 3:2 SD game. I have yet to try a 6:5 game. I've only discussed it here on this forum. Guess I wont tip at a 6:5.
Can i please ask you a question? If you had a chance to choose between 3:2 single deck BJ and 6:5 single deck BJ, which one would you choose?
Of course 3:2, but I gotta go to vegas a lot, up and down the strip doing business. Might as well hit the games while I'm there.
When you play 6:5 BJ what kind of spread do you use? (A 1 - 20 spread for example) and has there been times where youve noticed a heat being employed by the pitbosses at you or anyone else?
For me, as long as I play at a glitzy big corporate casino, I tend to get away with ginormous spreads as my max bet is chump change to them. $300 doesn't seem to bug them as much as it does Injun casinos.
You will approach his level much faster if you stop arguing with him and listen to his advice.
I'm just interested in Jack Black's reaction when he realizes the irony of his Grosjean-level aspirations as he argues with Exhibit CAA. There is truly some sort of post-modern humor here. I don't mean that in an insulting way, but it's worth a chuckle.
Man, internet interaction is crazy. I had no idea who I was talking to. I thought it was someone from the publishing company or a close associate. Oh well, now I can say I offended a pro, but I got him to answer me. Quite post modern for sure. I was arguing with Grosjean that I wanted to be like Grosjean. And that Grosjean knows more about beating games than Grosjean.
I suspect that CAA already has read that book, probably about 30 years ago. That book is good but very dated, as are the others you cite. It would be wise to take advice from more contemporary sources.
I was being facetious. I was also citing these books to give examples and validate specific points of my arguments. I know they're dated. I even mentioned that “Beat the dealer” was dated to prove the point that times change along with methods.
I have never met a dealer who knew proper basic strategy at any casino game. I’ve heard many other players confirm this experience. The dealers are only trained to deal the game, and often not very well at that.
Dealers really have nothing of value to tell you. If a dealer has been dealing for 20 years he may have seen everything. But, he's still a dealer for some reason.
This is the most laughable statement ever. I have played THOUSANDS of dealers. Other than an Asian male named "John" at Mandalay, I cannot be sure that there is even ONE who knows perfect BS. There may be, but your statement is ludicrous, and anyone who plays even ten hours per year would immediately see it as such.
I really can't believe that everyone here thinks dealers are ALL idiots. I know there's quite a few idiots, but it's not a huge concentration of retards compared to the rest of society. Not more than say, the gamblers that occupy the casino. I would say the amount of good BJ players Ive seen is about equal to the amount of dealers that are knowledgeable about counting, BS, and favorable rules. Give you an example of 2 nights ago. I had a sweetheart lady dealer that told me she hates hit 12v2. And because I struck up a conversation with her about nothing.( I think we were talking about her kids or some crap) I noticed she started playing the deck down to about 8 cards. It was only me at the table!! Only I got to reap the rewards of an almost fully played SD. I couldve kissed her! I made $600 in 15 minutes. $10 tip is really nothing to me for playing out the deck. Then I had this bitch of an asian lady, don't even know what her deal was, but I gave her lip about payouts and tried to make a joke of how she might get tipped more if she smiled. She didn't take that maxim lightly and subsequently would only deal out about 1/3 of the deck.
And Sorry for that mess up on the link. I'm surprised that no one else is surprised about it. Oh well, I'll just make another thread about it.
http://www.worldgameprotection.com/resources/media/card-counting-flyer.pdf
And my apologies to CAA
You really are over-tipping. $5 is over 1% of $300. What's your EV?
Well, if you tip $5 after winning a big bet you will give up about $12.50 per hour. With an EV of only $18 per hour you are giving up almost all of your profit. You are tipping 1.6% of your bet when your advantage isn’t much more than that. If the 6:5 payout didn’t kill your profit, the tipping probably will.
This tip rate is for a 3:2 SD game. I have yet to try a 6:5 game. I've only discussed it here on this forum. Guess I wont tip at a 6:5.
Can i please ask you a question? If you had a chance to choose between 3:2 single deck BJ and 6:5 single deck BJ, which one would you choose?
Of course 3:2, but I gotta go to vegas a lot, up and down the strip doing business. Might as well hit the games while I'm there.
When you play 6:5 BJ what kind of spread do you use? (A 1 - 20 spread for example) and has there been times where youve noticed a heat being employed by the pitbosses at you or anyone else?
For me, as long as I play at a glitzy big corporate casino, I tend to get away with ginormous spreads as my max bet is chump change to them. $300 doesn't seem to bug them as much as it does Injun casinos.
You will approach his level much faster if you stop arguing with him and listen to his advice.
I'm just interested in Jack Black's reaction when he realizes the irony of his Grosjean-level aspirations as he argues with Exhibit CAA. There is truly some sort of post-modern humor here. I don't mean that in an insulting way, but it's worth a chuckle.
Man, internet interaction is crazy. I had no idea who I was talking to. I thought it was someone from the publishing company or a close associate. Oh well, now I can say I offended a pro, but I got him to answer me. Quite post modern for sure. I was arguing with Grosjean that I wanted to be like Grosjean. And that Grosjean knows more about beating games than Grosjean.
I suspect that CAA already has read that book, probably about 30 years ago. That book is good but very dated, as are the others you cite. It would be wise to take advice from more contemporary sources.
I was being facetious. I was also citing these books to give examples and validate specific points of my arguments. I know they're dated. I even mentioned that “Beat the dealer” was dated to prove the point that times change along with methods.
I have never met a dealer who knew proper basic strategy at any casino game. I’ve heard many other players confirm this experience. The dealers are only trained to deal the game, and often not very well at that.
Dealers really have nothing of value to tell you. If a dealer has been dealing for 20 years he may have seen everything. But, he's still a dealer for some reason.
This is the most laughable statement ever. I have played THOUSANDS of dealers. Other than an Asian male named "John" at Mandalay, I cannot be sure that there is even ONE who knows perfect BS. There may be, but your statement is ludicrous, and anyone who plays even ten hours per year would immediately see it as such.
I really can't believe that everyone here thinks dealers are ALL idiots. I know there's quite a few idiots, but it's not a huge concentration of retards compared to the rest of society. Not more than say, the gamblers that occupy the casino. I would say the amount of good BJ players Ive seen is about equal to the amount of dealers that are knowledgeable about counting, BS, and favorable rules. Give you an example of 2 nights ago. I had a sweetheart lady dealer that told me she hates hit 12v2. And because I struck up a conversation with her about nothing.( I think we were talking about her kids or some crap) I noticed she started playing the deck down to about 8 cards. It was only me at the table!! Only I got to reap the rewards of an almost fully played SD. I couldve kissed her! I made $600 in 15 minutes. $10 tip is really nothing to me for playing out the deck. Then I had this bitch of an asian lady, don't even know what her deal was, but I gave her lip about payouts and tried to make a joke of how she might get tipped more if she smiled. She didn't take that maxim lightly and subsequently would only deal out about 1/3 of the deck.
And Sorry for that mess up on the link. I'm surprised that no one else is surprised about it. Oh well, I'll just make another thread about it.
http://www.worldgameprotection.com/resources/media/card-counting-flyer.pdf
And my apologies to CAA
Last edited:
SystemsTrader
Well-Known Member
It's not that we consider all dealers idiots (although some are) but its that dealers don't know basic strategy because its not their job to know. A dealers job is to deal the cards at a decent pace, keep the game moving and keep their errors minimal as best as possible. Most dealers don't care to know basic, catch counters or do surveillance they are there to collect a pay check go home and raise their families and go about their daily lives. This is to the players advantage.
This is not to say some dealers aren't on the ball. I've heard a dealer suggest to a player asking basic strategy questions to consult this very website Blackjackinfo.com. He mentioned the strategy engine and the forums for this player. I've heard other dealers suggest to players to look at the Wizard site. And I've even come across a dealer who counts cards. He was concentrating so hard and when I tried to engage him in conversation he ignored me. Counting and dealing is not the easiest thing to do so I respect the dealer for that. When another player who was getting killed at the table said I don't know if I should play another hand the dealer said "a running count of 17 with a 1/4 deck left, Ya you should play". That confirmed my suspicions.
Last edited:
?? for Jack_Black
A bit off topic maybe, so don't flame me please.
You mentioned playing at Binions, was that recently? Because last time I was out in Vegas, I thought the conditions downtown and Binions in particular were less than spectacular, and I'm considering going elsewhere on my next trip, unless you can tell me something good about recent conditions. (Mainly I try to just win enough to cover the costs of my vacations.)
A bit off topic maybe, so don't flame me please.
You mentioned playing at Binions, was that recently? Because last time I was out in Vegas, I thought the conditions downtown and Binions in particular were less than spectacular, and I'm considering going elsewhere on my next trip, unless you can tell me something good about recent conditions. (Mainly I try to just win enough to cover the costs of my vacations.)
Lonesome Gambler
Well-Known Member
JB, you might be missing one point here: 6:5 is definitely a beatable game, and there are players making money off of this game, but they are almost certainly (I can't say because I'm not one of these players) not doing it by simply counting cards. It seems to me that a large spread would also need to be supplemented with other advanced techniques to make the game worth even looking at. Out of curiosity, what was your aversion to shoe games based on? For someone that is strictly counting and not using any other advanced plays, you're probably in a much better position to profit from the reasonable 6D games on the strip (which is where you said you prefer to play in the first place). A not-too-terrible DD game would also be so much better than trying to count a 6:5 game if you really don't have the patience to play shoe games.
Jack_Black
Well-Known Member
You mentioned playing at Binions, was that recently? Because last time I was out in Vegas, I thought the conditions downtown and Binions in particular were less than spectacular, and I'm considering going elsewhere on my next trip, unless you can tell me something good about recent conditions. (Mainly I try to just win enough to cover the costs of my vacations.)
Recently would be exactly one year and one week ago. As I mentioned before, it was one of my first AP experiences. I'm completely shocked as to how much better I play now. I would've kicked me out if I saw how I was playing a year ago! Could they have changed since last year? I suspect they would have greatly. I.E. the economic downturn, and George "Genius" Bush handling the beginning of that downturn. I would ask CAA if he's still not mad at me or about this thread. I would assume you would need to bring your "A" game to the tables there. Felt like a lot of locals played there too. It's not a pretty place, so I would assume they don't want too much big action, as that could mean a huge dent to their bottom line. Again let me reiterate why I wanted to play the 6:5 SD at a big corporate place that could care less about my chump change max bet. Plus it's way more glitzy to play 6:5 at Caesars than to play 3:2 at binions. But that's the diff between the pros and the casuals. So yes, for your vacation, go someplace you would enjoy staying and playing at.
JB, you might be missing one point here: 6:5 is definitely a beatable game, and there are players making money off of this game, but they are almost certainly (I can't say because I'm not one of these players) not doing it by simply counting cards. It seems to me that a large spread would also need to be supplemented with other advanced techniques to make the game worth even looking at. Out of curiosity, what was your aversion to shoe games based on? For someone that is strictly counting and not using any other advanced plays, you're probably in a much better position to profit from the reasonable 6D games on the strip (which is where you said you prefer to play in the first place). A not-too-terrible DD game would also be so much better than trying to count a 6:5 game if you really don't have the patience to play shoe games.
You know, I felt like I was on to something. That there is some knowledge out there that no one is really willing to share. That was another big point I was trying to get out of this thread, but alas, if there is a solution, no one is talking, only hinting. I mean, Spanish 21 everyone thought was a carnival game, now it's considered beatable a la Katarina Walker. There is no different count or index for 6:5? Looks like I'll have to tackle this one on my own.
I know about the DD games, I play that 80% of the time. And Yes, I have no patience for counting shoe games.
Recently would be exactly one year and one week ago. As I mentioned before, it was one of my first AP experiences. I'm completely shocked as to how much better I play now. I would've kicked me out if I saw how I was playing a year ago! Could they have changed since last year? I suspect they would have greatly. I.E. the economic downturn, and George "Genius" Bush handling the beginning of that downturn. I would ask CAA if he's still not mad at me or about this thread. I would assume you would need to bring your "A" game to the tables there. Felt like a lot of locals played there too. It's not a pretty place, so I would assume they don't want too much big action, as that could mean a huge dent to their bottom line. Again let me reiterate why I wanted to play the 6:5 SD at a big corporate place that could care less about my chump change max bet. Plus it's way more glitzy to play 6:5 at Caesars than to play 3:2 at binions. But that's the diff between the pros and the casuals. So yes, for your vacation, go someplace you would enjoy staying and playing at.
JB, you might be missing one point here: 6:5 is definitely a beatable game, and there are players making money off of this game, but they are almost certainly (I can't say because I'm not one of these players) not doing it by simply counting cards. It seems to me that a large spread would also need to be supplemented with other advanced techniques to make the game worth even looking at. Out of curiosity, what was your aversion to shoe games based on? For someone that is strictly counting and not using any other advanced plays, you're probably in a much better position to profit from the reasonable 6D games on the strip (which is where you said you prefer to play in the first place). A not-too-terrible DD game would also be so much better than trying to count a 6:5 game if you really don't have the patience to play shoe games.
You know, I felt like I was on to something. That there is some knowledge out there that no one is really willing to share. That was another big point I was trying to get out of this thread, but alas, if there is a solution, no one is talking, only hinting. I mean, Spanish 21 everyone thought was a carnival game, now it's considered beatable a la Katarina Walker. There is no different count or index for 6:5? Looks like I'll have to tackle this one on my own.
I know about the DD games, I play that 80% of the time. And Yes, I have no patience for counting shoe games.