Dyepaintball12
Well-Known Member
I have been reading up on Craps, and was wondering if anyone here plays it seriously at all? Any good/bad experiences with it? Should I forget about it and stick to Blackjack?
Craps
- Thread starter Dyepaintball12
- Start date
pcristiani
New Member
It's pure luck I would stay out of it, same deal with roullette.
I play as a form of cover especially if i am playing BJ in the hotel where i am staying or when i am finished with bj for the day and just want to party. Not a bad game if you stick to the 5 best bets-pass line with odds-placing the 6 and/or 8. Come bet with odds or dont come bet without odds.You can get the house edge at the wizards site.One thing about the crap table, it usually gets the best cocktail service on the floor.
Sonny
Well-Known Member
Technically, both craps and roulette can be beaten. There are several methods for roulette such as sector prediction and wheel defects. I honestly don’t know much about it but there is more information and a free forum here:
http://www.advantageplayer.com/roulette/index.html
Craps can also be beaten by different methods of dice control and dice setting. Stanford Wong, among others, has written a book describing those techniques and the degree of advantage one can expect. The following websites may be helpful:
(Dead link: http://www.dicesetter.com/mp/main_toc.htm)
http://dicecoach.com/
http://sharpshootercraps.com/ (Archive copy)
Both games require a lot of practice. I don’t know if they are of practical use in a casino, but technically they do exist.
-Sonny-
http://www.advantageplayer.com/roulette/index.html
Craps can also be beaten by different methods of dice control and dice setting. Stanford Wong, among others, has written a book describing those techniques and the degree of advantage one can expect. The following websites may be helpful:
(Dead link: http://www.dicesetter.com/mp/main_toc.htm)
http://dicecoach.com/
http://sharpshootercraps.com/ (Archive copy)
Both games require a lot of practice. I don’t know if they are of practical use in a casino, but technically they do exist.
-Sonny-
A 3 person team can clean up up comps at a craps table.
Arrive seperately,then two players bet opposite of whatever the third,big player does.
It helps to find a table where someone else is betting the "wrong" way,but if player A is betting $50 a hand,and B&C split the $50 in different fashions,Player A will rake in very nice comps,while risking zero cash.Two or three hours will get you free rooms,and dinner in the "steakhouse" for 4.
a couple hours a day for a week and you're looking at a free trip.
Obviously,most casinos aren't completely stupid so you need to disguise your team.but its not that difficult.
Arrive seperately,then two players bet opposite of whatever the third,big player does.
It helps to find a table where someone else is betting the "wrong" way,but if player A is betting $50 a hand,and B&C split the $50 in different fashions,Player A will rake in very nice comps,while risking zero cash.Two or three hours will get you free rooms,and dinner in the "steakhouse" for 4.
a couple hours a day for a week and you're looking at a free trip.
Obviously,most casinos aren't completely stupid so you need to disguise your team.but its not that difficult.
So you wanna be a gambler!
BJ and Craps are the only casino games I will play. With the proper self control, Craps can be VERY profitable, not to mention fun. If you put a loss limit on your game, you can catch hot streaks and make good profits. Craps does not hurt my bankroll as much as BJ does. But, it doesn't help my bankroll as much either! The most I have won playing Craps for one session is $500 for a few hours. The most I have won playing BJ was $1,000 for a few hours.
I would highly recommend reading the book "So You Wanna Be A Gambler" (advanced Craps) by John Patrick. This book has a lot of betting strategies and money management along with discipline advice. I found quite a bit of the information very valuable when applied to BJ and gambling in general. You can make lots of adjustments to the techniques taught and just apply them to your own style of play.
Other members mentioned controlled dice setting in their replies... I (personally) don't think you can control the dice, but you can shoot the same way every time and you will definitely notice the numbers (patterns) that you roll more frequent than others. This will affect the way you bet on your own roll!
Good luck and keep us informed of what you do.
BJ and Craps are the only casino games I will play. With the proper self control, Craps can be VERY profitable, not to mention fun. If you put a loss limit on your game, you can catch hot streaks and make good profits. Craps does not hurt my bankroll as much as BJ does. But, it doesn't help my bankroll as much either! The most I have won playing Craps for one session is $500 for a few hours. The most I have won playing BJ was $1,000 for a few hours.
I would highly recommend reading the book "So You Wanna Be A Gambler" (advanced Craps) by John Patrick. This book has a lot of betting strategies and money management along with discipline advice. I found quite a bit of the information very valuable when applied to BJ and gambling in general. You can make lots of adjustments to the techniques taught and just apply them to your own style of play.
Other members mentioned controlled dice setting in their replies... I (personally) don't think you can control the dice, but you can shoot the same way every time and you will definitely notice the numbers (patterns) that you roll more frequent than others. This will affect the way you bet on your own roll!
Good luck and keep us informed of what you do.
setting the dice
I do set the dice when I shoot. This does not mean that I have total control of the dice and can make all sevens on a come out roll, nor can I avoid sevening out during my point attempts. It only means that I regognize the fact that I throw more fives during my rolls than any other number. Hence, when I am the shooter, I always place the five for $10 first bet. After each hit, I will press one unit and pull back the rest. An average roll of mine will normally produce about four or five hits on the five.
I do set the dice when I shoot. This does not mean that I have total control of the dice and can make all sevens on a come out roll, nor can I avoid sevening out during my point attempts. It only means that I regognize the fact that I throw more fives during my rolls than any other number. Hence, when I am the shooter, I always place the five for $10 first bet. After each hit, I will press one unit and pull back the rest. An average roll of mine will normally produce about four or five hits on the five.
Dyepaintball12
Well-Known Member
Well, as of right now, using "dice control" techniques is completely legal and they cant kick you out for doing it.
But who knows what the casinos will do in the future.
Well I will definitely look into Stanford Wongs books on Craps and some others, but as of right now Im thinking to mix up my action in a casino i will just head to the craps table and make a pass bet and come bet, with odds, and then maybe make a place bet on the 6 and 8.
I know you can never have the advantage over the house in craps like you can with counting, but it seems like a fun game to try when ur not playing Blackjack.
But who knows what the casinos will do in the future.
Well I will definitely look into Stanford Wongs books on Craps and some others, but as of right now Im thinking to mix up my action in a casino i will just head to the craps table and make a pass bet and come bet, with odds, and then maybe make a place bet on the 6 and 8.
I know you can never have the advantage over the house in craps like you can with counting, but it seems like a fun game to try when ur not playing Blackjack.
They can kick you out for wearing a yellow shirt if they want to!
If you hold the dice a certain way,and notice you roll more 5s,why not keep making adjustments on the way you hold them until you can make the 7 instead of the 5.
Expensive?
That could be very expensive. Until you find the correct set for your style of throw, you would have to roll hundreds, maybe thousands of times before you recognize a pattern. I've played craps for a few years now, and it was just by coincidence that I started using the two-3 set. It took quite some time to catch the pattern that five came out more than seven. So, I capitalize on it. Nothing fancy, magical or mathematical, just catching the (lucky) percentages. Other people use the same set and don't roll the same numbers I do. Throw technique my be different, whatever, but I'm sure they know their own tendencies, and bet accordingly.
On the matter of throwing more sevens on the come out roll for winners...I set the dice on seven (five and two) and roll quite a few sevens (six and one). Not enough to call it a pattern.
One of the problems with being consistent is you always have to throw FROM the same spot, TO the same spot, the exact same way, with the same rotation, landing, and final roll or bounce. Another problem is that all tables are not created equal. The cushion underneath is different on some tables, so die bounce more in one casino than another. Some casinos have longer tables. The rails are higher in one casino than another (this makes short shooters stand on tip toes and have to reach or stretch).
Some earlier comments were made about players being tapped out. To address this issue I have actually seen this happen... Player was setting the dice and was using his technique for throwing and was winning quite a bit along with everyone on the table during his rolls. If the dice are not moving the casinos are not making money. This is the same as if the dealer is too slow, not as many hands per hour, equals less money for the casino. The box-man and the stick-man informed the shooter he was taking too much time and would have to shoot without taking the time to set up. "We give you the dice, you shoot! If you don't like it, pass the dice to the next shooter and you are welcome to keep on betting." This removed any advantage this shooter was giving to everyone on that table. Unfortunate, but it happens.
That could be very expensive. Until you find the correct set for your style of throw, you would have to roll hundreds, maybe thousands of times before you recognize a pattern. I've played craps for a few years now, and it was just by coincidence that I started using the two-3 set. It took quite some time to catch the pattern that five came out more than seven. So, I capitalize on it. Nothing fancy, magical or mathematical, just catching the (lucky) percentages. Other people use the same set and don't roll the same numbers I do. Throw technique my be different, whatever, but I'm sure they know their own tendencies, and bet accordingly.
On the matter of throwing more sevens on the come out roll for winners...I set the dice on seven (five and two) and roll quite a few sevens (six and one). Not enough to call it a pattern.
One of the problems with being consistent is you always have to throw FROM the same spot, TO the same spot, the exact same way, with the same rotation, landing, and final roll or bounce. Another problem is that all tables are not created equal. The cushion underneath is different on some tables, so die bounce more in one casino than another. Some casinos have longer tables. The rails are higher in one casino than another (this makes short shooters stand on tip toes and have to reach or stretch).
Some earlier comments were made about players being tapped out. To address this issue I have actually seen this happen... Player was setting the dice and was using his technique for throwing and was winning quite a bit along with everyone on the table during his rolls. If the dice are not moving the casinos are not making money. This is the same as if the dealer is too slow, not as many hands per hour, equals less money for the casino. The box-man and the stick-man informed the shooter he was taking too much time and would have to shoot without taking the time to set up. "We give you the dice, you shoot! If you don't like it, pass the dice to the next shooter and you are welcome to keep on betting." This removed any advantage this shooter was giving to everyone on that table. Unfortunate, but it happens.
History Channel
There were several episodes of "breaking Vegas" on the History cahannel ....some had actual cheaters, there were some who played various games legit, but used strategy to win.
There was one guy who was sooo good at dice control he could walk up to any craps table in any casino and let anybody suggest a number for him to roll. He would roll it and could in fact, roll any number he wanted. Once the casinos realized how skilled he was... you guessed it, they banned him.
There were several episodes of "breaking Vegas" on the History cahannel ....some had actual cheaters, there were some who played various games legit, but used strategy to win.
There was one guy who was sooo good at dice control he could walk up to any craps table in any casino and let anybody suggest a number for him to roll. He would roll it and could in fact, roll any number he wanted. Once the casinos realized how skilled he was... you guessed it, they banned him.
Brutus
Well-Known Member
If you hold the dice a certain way,and notice you roll more 5s,why not keep making adjustments on the way you hold them until you can make the 7 instead of the 5.
the money on rolling 5's is better. odds are 3:2.
personally I have seen dicesetters beat the house badly.
anyone else remember Binions 15 some years ago?
100x odds works into a handsome run if your throwing alot of 5's and only a few 7's.
casino royale used to have a 100x game, but the players I have seen wont take full odds, because the minimum is so high. I think $5, putting your odds bet at $500.
a lot of bread to lay down at one time. What vegas needs is a dollar or .25 minimum and 100x odds game.
anyone know where something like that is?
Sonny
Well-Known Member
Even with two players playing "right" and "wrong" you will still lose money due to the house edge. The only thing this team is doing is reducing the variance. It is the same as betting on red and black in roulette. You will still lose money when the zeros come up.
-Sonny-
Explain this please.That doesn't jibe with the results I've seen so far.
Player A rollls,player B bets wrong.Player A gets a 6.He either makes it and wins,or craps out and player B wins.