PA. casino review
- Thread starter blackchipjim
- Start date
aslan
Well-Known Member
xxxChesterxxx is not so bad as the name xxxHarrah'sxxx might lead you to believe. Rules are set by state law. Hence, 8 deck, S17, DAS, DOA, SA1, LS and 75% to 85% pen, ASM. I lost my first outing there but that was due to negative variance in a monster positive count. You should give it a try. I played both $15 and $25 mins.
blackjack avenger
Well-Known Member
Counters = Profits
If you bet over 2Kelly you will lose, no matter your technical skill. What is the number 1 flaw of pseudo counters? Overbetting! If they have this flaw they are probably flawed in several areas of play. They are probably not playing with an advantage.
There is a constant supply of pseudo counters who lose their money at an accelerated rate. Let's consider your example. Of the "skilled" players sitting at the table all but one are betting very big and overbetting. Their overall skill can also be questioned because they are overbetting. The casino takes their bank and they are replaced by more pseudo counters whose losses far outstrip the one truly competent player. Don't forget those pseudo counters that are losing are betting 2 plus times the one competent player.
When card counting was discovered the casinos made more money from bj, not less.
The numbers of pseudo counters who lose their banks far outstrip real pros. Go through the history of this site and see all the players that no longer post. I wonder why that is?:joker::whip:
With good rules the casinos still make a lot of money.:joker::whip:
If you bet over 2Kelly you will lose, no matter your technical skill. What is the number 1 flaw of pseudo counters? Overbetting! If they have this flaw they are probably flawed in several areas of play. They are probably not playing with an advantage.
There is a constant supply of pseudo counters who lose their money at an accelerated rate. Let's consider your example. Of the "skilled" players sitting at the table all but one are betting very big and overbetting. Their overall skill can also be questioned because they are overbetting. The casino takes their bank and they are replaced by more pseudo counters whose losses far outstrip the one truly competent player. Don't forget those pseudo counters that are losing are betting 2 plus times the one competent player.
When card counting was discovered the casinos made more money from bj, not less.
The numbers of pseudo counters who lose their banks far outstrip real pros. Go through the history of this site and see all the players that no longer post. I wonder why that is?:joker::whip:
With good rules the casinos still make a lot of money.:joker::whip:
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Only in high limit. All of the lower tables still allow mid-shoe entry, including 25-2,500 tables.
blackjack avenger
Well-Known Member
Where Are They?
Where are these perfect BS players?
I can tell you where they are not!:joker::whip:
They are not in all those casinos that offer the same rules. Also, they are not at any tables I have seen.
I look around and I see civilians getting crushed, you don't see the same?
Where are these perfect BS players?
I can tell you where they are not!:joker::whip:
They are not in all those casinos that offer the same rules. Also, they are not at any tables I have seen.
I look around and I see civilians getting crushed, you don't see the same?
Automatic Monkey
Banned
Wait, there are two ways of describing a betting fraction, with and without resizing. If you are always resizing your bet relative to your bankroll, Zeno's Paradox takes over and with 100% certainty I can tell you you will never lose all of your money until you can no longer make the table minimum.
If you are playing with a fixed initial bankroll and a fixed betting ramp, your risk of ruin is a percentage greater but not equal to 0% and less than but not equal to 100%, no matter what that BR and ramp are. Once that percentage is defined, whether you crash into the sun or accelerate out of the solar system depends on luck alone, not ability. But the quality of your play does affect that percentage. This is why small-bank counters cannot afford cover.
Most players use a mix of the two- betting a fixed unit size and ramp until something major happens one way or the other and they resize. This is reasonable.
blackjack avenger
Well-Known Member
I Agree 100%, Mostly
Skill does matter, If you cannot play a skilled game that ROR really goes up. How about skill in picking quality of game as an example? But, sure if variance shines on you it sure does help!:joker::whip:
If they are betting resized kelly, that resizing better be with all bets below kelly because .9 kelly and 1.1 kelly have the same growth rate but 1.1 kelly has higher variance. Since most probably resize in some form the above is probably rather important.
If a player thinks they are playing resized kelly but resize when half of bank is lost and then ride that to the end, they don't have a 0% ror but about 5%.
Most players are probably not as skilled as they think; excluding us of course!:joker::whip:, and probably their ror is higher then they think.
Skill does matter, If you cannot play a skilled game that ROR really goes up. How about skill in picking quality of game as an example? But, sure if variance shines on you it sure does help!:joker::whip:
If they are betting resized kelly, that resizing better be with all bets below kelly because .9 kelly and 1.1 kelly have the same growth rate but 1.1 kelly has higher variance. Since most probably resize in some form the above is probably rather important.
If a player thinks they are playing resized kelly but resize when half of bank is lost and then ride that to the end, they don't have a 0% ror but about 5%.
Most players are probably not as skilled as they think; excluding us of course!:joker::whip:, and probably their ror is higher then they think.
Automatic Monkey
Banned
You can forget about Kelly for a variable or replenishable bank. It's not for that. A higher Kelly fraction has higher variance and risk of ruin, but also a higher hourly profit. As the people who are out there physically playing the game, we have to remember we are not financial managers managing other people's billions and collecting a salary, we have to be paid for our efforts.
Now this is where the judgment call comes in, let's define "ruin" as "you won't be able to play again." For an employed professional, that isn't going to happen, and you can set your RoR as high as you dare. But there's temporary ruin to consider too. If I go out on a 4-day mission with a finite amount of money, and I get hammered on the first day, I'm going to spend the next 3 days with my weasel in my fist chasing coupons and playing for $5 an hour.
Could you be a little more graphic, please? :grin:
plainplayer
Active Member
We were at Mountaineer mid-evening Aug 5th -- a Thursday -- and the parking lot was completely filled from the hotel end to the southern exit road end. We got a spot taken from someone else pulling out to leave. Everything inside was active and busy as usual; the "warehouse district" and the pit across from HL were not open but that's because they're not scheduled to be open Thursdays. (They have a flyer that shows availability times for all areas.)
blackchipjim
Well-Known Member
scouting mission report
I got back late last nite from a recon mission in Pa. Bad news as far as I'm concerned. Went to rivers and tables were mixed some asm some csm limits were scattered between the machines. The ones that were asm were good games but didn't get to play due to the crowd. The meadows on the the other hand is a waste of time the only tables that didn't have csm were counter traps so this place is a right off til it changes. I won't be traveling that far again unless they change.
I got back late last nite from a recon mission in Pa. Bad news as far as I'm concerned. Went to rivers and tables were mixed some asm some csm limits were scattered between the machines. The ones that were asm were good games but didn't get to play due to the crowd. The meadows on the the other hand is a waste of time the only tables that didn't have csm were counter traps so this place is a right off til it changes. I won't be traveling that far again unless they change.
Sharky
Well-Known Member
the area across form the HL pit used to be open EVERY night...could hardly find an open seat on a Thurs night....now, not even open...need I say more
Sharky
Well-Known Member
I, too, made the trip to the Pittsburgh area and both the Rivers and Meadows were way too crowded...especially for a slotted cut at <70%...don't care if you have LS or not...pen is bad.
plainplayer
Active Member
The copy of the schedule flyer I've got dates from many months before tables opened in Pennsylvania. So if there was any kind of trouble, it hasn't been caused by that.
Thursday still seemed mighty busy to me.
blackchipjim
Well-Known Member
crowding
I was there saturday afternoon and both were zoos. I should of keyed off the video poker pay tables which were equally miserable. The wife played some slots that were tighter than a giesha's sandals. I was entertaining the thought of going to the ones further up and over in the state but I fear that would of been a waste of time and gas.
I was there saturday afternoon and both were zoos. I should of keyed off the video poker pay tables which were equally miserable. The wife played some slots that were tighter than a giesha's sandals. I was entertaining the thought of going to the ones further up and over in the state but I fear that would of been a waste of time and gas.
BJgenius007
Well-Known Member
What do you mean by "counter trap"?
I have been to both Rivers and Meadows, actually very often. I like Meadows better because my winning percentage is 80%+ there. What do you mean by "counter trap"? I am a counter and every time the pit boss thanked me for winning and told me come again. Normally I bought $500 chips and cashed out at $1200.
I have been to both Rivers and Meadows, actually very often. I like Meadows better because my winning percentage is 80%+ there. What do you mean by "counter trap"? I am a counter and every time the pit boss thanked me for winning and told me come again. Normally I bought $500 chips and cashed out at $1200.
My visit
I visited both Rivers and Meadows yesterday too and perfered Rivers. At the Meadows only $15 tables had shoes. Played an AMS 6D, $5 table at Rivers for less than an hour and left up 20% of my buy in. But if the PA casinos are going to start being jerks ill have to make the long drive to that grand place in MI..
I visited both Rivers and Meadows yesterday too and perfered Rivers. At the Meadows only $15 tables had shoes. Played an AMS 6D, $5 table at Rivers for less than an hour and left up 20% of my buy in. But if the PA casinos are going to start being jerks ill have to make the long drive to that grand place in MI..
devils4ever
Member
I finally got a chance to visit the Sands on Sunday afternoon now that they have real table games. I was severely disappointed. There were only $15 and $25 tables and they were thoroughly packed. Not an empty seat in the house.
I had to settle on video BJ which I didn't do too well on. The cocktail waitresses were overworked and I never even got a drink.
I'll never go on a weekend again.
I had to settle on video BJ which I didn't do too well on. The cocktail waitresses were overworked and I never even got a drink.
I'll never go on a weekend again.
FizzyBubbly
New Member
Sands on weekends
You really want to go to sands during the week, usually during the weekend they have only 25 min and all the dealers are crazy about calling over the pit boss with either wanting to see the burn (they will call every time) and cashing in people. i bought in for only 100 once and the guy stopped the game for almost a full 2 min b4 the boss came to say ok. However Sands is a different story on the weekdays, the dealers are newer and so are the pit bosses, who mostly focus on the other tables and giving the players their comps. Also the tables usually range from 10 - 25 however in the evening the 10 table turns to a 15 min. Yes the tables are usually packed but i see it as a good thing, yes u get more possible neg variance from other players, i.e guy splits 4's against a 2 with a true of +6 while i had bet 250 and doubled on my 11 and stayed at 18. guy gets a king on both fours and stays, dealer would have busted. however i digress. With a lot of peeps packing the tables it makes it really easy to back count and enter mid shoe. I've actually given money to players in front of me to play for me without anything said about it by the dealer or the pit crew, they just assume I'm the players friend. Either way i still think sands is an easy take during the week and a great place to learn this beautiful craft of ours.
You really want to go to sands during the week, usually during the weekend they have only 25 min and all the dealers are crazy about calling over the pit boss with either wanting to see the burn (they will call every time) and cashing in people. i bought in for only 100 once and the guy stopped the game for almost a full 2 min b4 the boss came to say ok. However Sands is a different story on the weekdays, the dealers are newer and so are the pit bosses, who mostly focus on the other tables and giving the players their comps. Also the tables usually range from 10 - 25 however in the evening the 10 table turns to a 15 min. Yes the tables are usually packed but i see it as a good thing, yes u get more possible neg variance from other players, i.e guy splits 4's against a 2 with a true of +6 while i had bet 250 and doubled on my 11 and stayed at 18. guy gets a king on both fours and stays, dealer would have busted. however i digress. With a lot of peeps packing the tables it makes it really easy to back count and enter mid shoe. I've actually given money to players in front of me to play for me without anything said about it by the dealer or the pit crew, they just assume I'm the players friend. Either way i still think sands is an easy take during the week and a great place to learn this beautiful craft of ours.
iwantblackjack
Well-Known Member
I finally got a chance to visit the Sands on Sunday afternoon now that they have real table games. I was severely disappointed. There were only $15 and $25 tables and they were thoroughly packed. Not an empty seat in the house. I had to settle on video BJ which I didn't do too well on. The cocktail waitresses were overworked and I never even got a drink.
I was also there Sunday late afternoon thru the evening just observing. I'm not sure if any1 said, all their bj tables were ASM. Smoking region had about 8 tables open (3 at $15; rest at $25; and all had spots taken). There was a pit of 6 tables not open. Non-smoking area had like 4 tables (all $15, and no empty seats, with people behind waiting). Another 6 tables not open. The High limit area had 1or 2 open with $100 min (1 table next baccarat had 3 guys, 4 spots used; middle guy with fat watch had ova 5000 black chips in 500-piles; and 1st base had purples and blacks). There, too, had 6 tables not open. I left without spending a penny at PA Sands. I tried to take a picture of the empty tables and floor; but 2 bored? suitmen blocked my view and said no pics or cameras. I told them I was taking pic of the empty tables where I could have been playing, and then left. Edit: The # tables I saw seem much less than the # tables PA Sands proposed to PGCB. Where am i missing? Is Mohegan Downs Poconos any better (or simlar to Mohegan Sun in CT)?
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