For the most part, they can't fix them. There is no way to estimate the future profitability of players using a one trip one day play history without allowing some players to take advantage of them. Their computerized analysis of the history of new players tells them that if a new player makes a one day visit and bets $xxx coin-in they will likely have a long term profit of $yyyy. The fact that occasionally someone who is aware of the calculations being made about him behind the scenes takes advantage of the situation is just a cost Harrah's needs to figure into the equation.
An easy way to get comped rooms at Harrahs
- Thread starter tensplitter
- Start date
For the most part, they can't fix them. There is no way to estimate the future profitability of players using a one trip one day play history without allowing some players to take advantage of them. Their computerized analysis of the history of new players tells them that if a new player makes a one day visit and bets $xxx coin-in they will likely have a long term profit of $yyyy. The fact that occasionally someone who is aware of the calculations being made about him behind the scenes takes advantage of the situation is just a cost Harrah's needs to figure into the equation.
Not only that, but I'd imagine many people who go to a casino with the intention of playing only $100 end up spending much more. Same thing as most counters end up losing because they don't spread enough and/or are underfunded. It takes a lot of discipline to properly abuse the system and how often are slot play and discipline used in the same sentence.
Slot payback is not easy to figure out. Generally,the higher the denomination, the higher the payback but there are many exceptions.
One problem is that most machines give a bonus if you hit the jackpot with maximum coin in, so if you aren't playing max coins and don't hit a jackpot the payout is skewed. There are two types of slots- rrel slots and video slots. Video slots produce more "winning spins" than reels, but with one important difference. On a reel, your win will always be at least your original bet, while a win on a video slot might pat you six while you bet twentyseven.
Most video slots have jackpot sequences where a hand will set off a bonus game. Few reel games have that- Wheel of Fortune being the exception.
Blue Efficacy
Well-Known Member
I would also think it would be best to play a game with a smaller top prize, better chances of a smaller payout. Although a huge jackpot would be a nice boost to a bankroll! :joker:
Jack_Black
Well-Known Member
I'm sure HET is aware of the payout frequency on those slots, which will affect how profitable you are to them. Correct me if I'm wrong, but I'm sure the slots with the highest hold % will give you more comps.
sagefr0g
Well-Known Member
yes.:cool2::whip:
Slot Theos
Oddly enough there isn't as much variability or even consistency as you might believe in terms of slot theo. Still you would be better off playing a full pay VP game 4x longer to get the same theo with a lower expected loss. (i.e., play $1,500 coin-in at VP instead of $300 coin-in at slots and you'll get around $30 in theo at VP and around $24 in theo at Slots but with VP you'll have an expected loss of around $15 versus $24 at Slots thus you save $9 bucks.
If you are determined to just play slots to look stupid your best bet is probably Double Diamond $5 denomination which will be around 94% payback but also low variance (in terms of slots).
Why not just slow play roulette with a Max Rubin comp strategy betting $500 per spin betting mostly red numbers inside and loosely offsetting with black bets on the outside and a few small bets on the Green courtesy line. Each spin you'll mostly break-even or lose a little bit but will have a huge avg bet. After 10-15 minutes trim your bet by 30 to 50% when the pit isn't looking and when he returns pump up one spin with a much higher bet than your original rating then trim back immediately to your original bet and then when the pit walks off cut your bet by half as long as you can. After an hour or so quit. If you can manage to manufacture at least a $1000 loss with ratholing and actual loss you should get nice offers in the mail for a long time.
Oddly enough there isn't as much variability or even consistency as you might believe in terms of slot theo. Still you would be better off playing a full pay VP game 4x longer to get the same theo with a lower expected loss. (i.e., play $1,500 coin-in at VP instead of $300 coin-in at slots and you'll get around $30 in theo at VP and around $24 in theo at Slots but with VP you'll have an expected loss of around $15 versus $24 at Slots thus you save $9 bucks.
If you are determined to just play slots to look stupid your best bet is probably Double Diamond $5 denomination which will be around 94% payback but also low variance (in terms of slots).
Why not just slow play roulette with a Max Rubin comp strategy betting $500 per spin betting mostly red numbers inside and loosely offsetting with black bets on the outside and a few small bets on the Green courtesy line. Each spin you'll mostly break-even or lose a little bit but will have a huge avg bet. After 10-15 minutes trim your bet by 30 to 50% when the pit isn't looking and when he returns pump up one spin with a much higher bet than your original rating then trim back immediately to your original bet and then when the pit walks off cut your bet by half as long as you can. After an hour or so quit. If you can manage to manufacture at least a $1000 loss with ratholing and actual loss you should get nice offers in the mail for a long time.
Get serious. If we had the BR to cover that roulette strategy, we wouldn't be sweating ways to get free rooms. Anyone can get comped rooms if they are big gamblers. Big deal. The fun is getting free rooms for not being big gamblers. your method is akin to stealing somebodies hoopie and leaving a couple of hundreds in the spot.
moo321
Well-Known Member
Yes, bankroll is a serious consideration. However, if one has a massive bankroll, ratholes chips, etc. this could be very +EV. Free plane tickets, loss rebates, cash incentives, and a complete removal of heat on whatever you do with the rest of your time.
What if your BP did this for a few trips? Who's gonna back off a 1K a hand roulette player? You could probably get away with BP play for years...
tensplitter
Well-Known Member
A good way to look like a high roller is to have the big player on a team bet $1000 a roll on the dont pass, and 10 others on the team bet $100 each on the pass. 30 minutes at $1000 per roll would give the craps player some very good comps, and the $100 players would also get good comps.
Pits are not entirely stupid. Most bosses will be on to this in a matter of minutes and will not give anyone any comps. Besides, as Flash mentioned, you'd lose money when a 6-6 is rolled, and from experiance, the die have a way of finding and exploiting whatever weakness there is in a system.
I was playing Sic Bo a few years ago and these two guys show up, stand on opposite sides of the table and each buy in for $2,000. All Black. Everyone else is betting $1 to $5 but these guys bet $100 on high, $100 on low. It's a push-pull bet unless the dealer rolls triples, in which case all bets lose. Dealer throws triples four out of about a dozen times and these guys slink away down $800. To make it worse, the PB tells them he's not giving them shite as their bets canceled each other out.
This is true, of course. And because of this, here's what REALLY happens when someone follows the OP's strategy:
According to the Wizard of Odds, every time someone makes a bet on "Don't Pas", the casino earns 1.36% of that bet, and for a "pass" bet the casino earns
1.41%. Therefore they'll earn $13.60 every time the big bettor makes a bet and $1.41 for each "small" bettor. If they play 10 rounds in a half hour (sounds reasonable to me), the house will have earned a total of $277.00 upon completion of the experiment.
Now; the casinos are not stupid. They ALSO know this, and comp accordingly. The amount that they'll give back in comps is usually somewhere between 10% to 25% of their theoretical earn. So you get about 60 bucks or so in comps, and it will, on the average, cost you only $277.
Now you MIGHT a floorman who accidentally overrates you, but on the other hand; you might get one who screws you over, as Shad suggests.
FLASH1296
Well-Known Member
True story — stranger than fiction. L O L
This brings to mind a very funny story.
A decade ago my buddy is at a newly opened Henderson casino.
He wants to get noticed so for camofl' he steps up to the craps table where 100-1 odds are being offered.
He bets $10 on every roll and backs it up with $1,000 of odds.
A glad-handing host approaches pretty soon and he is given a nice suite. The host says " … and whatever you need, let me know" He jokingly asks the host to send up two bottles of Kristal champagne. Amazed that the host does not see that he is kidding; it occurs to him that there is no way that a $10 player can receive $1,000 of champers — suggesting to him that, [pYES, you have already figured this out] — they are recording his action as his total action — including his multiple $1,000 ODDS BETS.
This brings to mind a very funny story.
A decade ago my buddy is at a newly opened Henderson casino.
He wants to get noticed so for camofl' he steps up to the craps table where 100-1 odds are being offered.
He bets $10 on every roll and backs it up with $1,000 of odds.
A glad-handing host approaches pretty soon and he is given a nice suite. The host says " … and whatever you need, let me know" He jokingly asks the host to send up two bottles of Kristal champagne. Amazed that the host does not see that he is kidding; it occurs to him that there is no way that a $10 player can receive $1,000 of champers — suggesting to him that, [pYES, you have already figured this out] — they are recording his action as his total action — including his multiple $1,000 ODDS BETS.
And for those who don't know this - the casino earns exactly ZERO on an odds bet!
I've known several people who've tried this. It's the first time I've heard of it actually WORKING! GOTTA LOVE IT!
While I know you get true odds on the odds bet, I also know casinos keep 5% or more of their BJ handle while offering a game with less than 1% HA, so I seriously doubt the casinos make nothing off the odds bets. Why ould they offer anything they don't make a profit off of.
Automatic Monkey
Banned
With 100% certainty I can tell you craps odds has zero edge for house or player.
Take a real-world example, two guys bet $100 at a craps table with 3-4-5x odds, one takes Pass and one takes Don't. Point is 5. They both take full odds- Pass lays down $400 to get a $600 win. Don't lays down $600 to get a $400 win. One will pay the other, and the casino stands to make or lose nothing being there is no way they can both win or both lose.
They make their money on the initial bets required to make an odds bet, and the odds is just to attract players. I think it may increase the house's hold in that some players are going to play until they lose it all anyway. The variance of odds will make the losers lose more quickly, and it will make the winners feel froggy, and start betting more and/or start playing the sucker bets in the middle of the table.
Automatic Monkey
Banned
Well sure, I suppose you can say they make money off the free drinks too. The odds brings people to the table and distributes the money erratically to produce erratic behavior in the gamers. Maybe a better way to put it is that they might not make any money off the odds bet, but the bet makes the table more profitable.
How much money the casino makes is a matter not only of what their edge is but how quickly action gets cycled through the game. Keeping the game moving and making the table a comfortable place where people want to stay is worth just as much to the store as a higher edge.