Dumbest thing I've heard said at the table

[josh3623]

the biggest ten splitter(and idiot)

This really has nothing to do with strategy just an overall consensus...

What are some of the dumbest thing you hear either the ploppies or dealers say?

Some lines that I hear on a regular basis that put people on a brain function level comprable to Terri Shiavo:

"A Push is a Win"

"It's a good idea to insure a 20 because if they dealer doesn't have blackjack chances are you win."

"Sure you won that hand by standing on 14 against a dealer 10, but now you've messed up the cards."

"Always split A's and 8's."

"Sure I lost $500 but at least I got a free buffet."

When I asked this fool why he kept splitting tens he actually said:
"I always split tens, then I get 2 chances to win"
the guy also thought doubling down on a hard 17 was a good idea, because
"I get a lot of 4s"
The table got a lot of heat from the pit bosses on that one(they were laughing).

he looked broke to begin with, and burned through a couple hundred dollars in red chips in about 5 minutes.
I was winning for some crazy reason, usually I up and leave when a fool like this is sitting at my table.

PS did you check out the idiot on here who asked: "is there ever a high count situation where it is a good idea to double down on a natural 21?"
It wasn't at a table, but it is definately the stupidist blackjack question I have ever heard.

 

[kender]

I don't think it's that idiotic

PS did you check out the idiot on here who asked: "is there ever a high count situation where it is a good idea to double down on a natural 21?"
It wasn't at a table, but it is definately the stupidist blackjack question I have ever heard.

First, I think its an interesting theoretical question even if it doesn't have any practicle use. (side note: I'm sure there's got to be an index for this, but it's probably pretty durn high!)

Second, and I know it doesn't really help to count in tournaments, but I know doubling on your natural is sometimes the advantageous thing to do in a tournament. So its really not out of the realm of use.

Just my thoughts.

 

[ScottH]

PS did you check out the idiot on here who asked: "is there ever a high count situation where it is a good idea to double down on a natural 21?"
It wasn't at a table, but it is definately the stupidist blackjack question I have ever heard.

Haha, only if you knew there was only tens left in the deck!

 

[EasyRhino]

Hey hey! I was the doofus who asked about doubling down on a natural 21 here.

And it's not completely doofusy. If you had something easy to analyze like a coin flip, how much would the advantage have to be where the odds of winning 2 units (compared with losing 2) beat a guaranteed 1.5 units? So, if the edge got 88% or higher, it would be +EV.

Course, to have an 88% chance of winning by taking exactly one more card... that would be a pretty studpendous count, I guess.

 

[bluewhale]

The Optimum Strategy in Blackjack

I just wanted to point out, if anybody has looked at the original blackjack article. Look at the second last paragraph in the entire article. I thought it was quite amazing, they are talking about card counting and how it is impossible without knowing it (years before it was even dreamt of).
I'll post it....

"The optimum strategy was developed under the assumption that the player does not have the time or inclination to utilize the information available in the hands of the players preceding him in the draw. This information is non-existent when the player sits on the dealer's left and is greatest when the player is on the dealer's right. There are tremendous difficulties, however, in using this information except in an intuitive, non-scientific manner."

 

[zengrifter]

I just wanted to point out, if anybody has looked at the original blackjack article. Look at the second last paragraph in the entire article. I thought it was quite amazing, they are talking about card counting and how it is impossible without knowing it (years before it was even dreamt of)."

Actually, by 1956 there were pioneering counters, BUT they didn't know correct BS. zg

 

[bluewhale]

couple more questions for the pros...

Hey,
2 questions:
1. Can you please explain wonging in and out? (i understand that wonging in is basically sitting down on a high count) But from what i've heard is that you can start on a fresh shoe, and "wong" out when the count drops, and this increases your advantage??

2. I need some good basic indecies for the Hi/Low count. I've heard about the "illustrious 18", maybe those will do. But basically i just want a few for now. O and they will be used for BJ, AC rules... DAS S17 8D split 3 times, no surr.

thanks a lot!

 

[sagefr0g]

not a pro but....

Hey,
2 questions:
1. Can you please explain wonging in and out? (i understand that wonging in is basically sitting down on a high count) But from what i've heard is that you can start on a fresh shoe, and "wong" out when the count drops, and this increases your advantage??

you pretty much answered your own question. when you wong in you may want to size your bet so that it is optimal with respect to your overall bankroll and the advantage that presents.
the reason that wonging in and wonging out is advantageous is that you avoid disadvantgeous counts (those are the times that you normally lose more wagers than you win) and additionally you play more often when the count is advantageous (those are the times that you normally win more wagers than you lose).

2. I need some good basic indecies for the Hi/Low count. I've heard about the "illustrious 18", maybe those will do. But basically i just want a few for now. O and they will be used for BJ, AC rules... DAS S17 8D split 3 times, no surr.

thanks a lot!

i'd just go with the illustrious 18. that gives you near 80% of the advantage you'd realize from all of the departures.

best regards,
mr fr0g

 

[shadroch]

Find a llist of the 18 that ranks the 18 in order and just take the most valuable ones. However many you are comfortable with,and add a few at your leisure

 

[blackjacksquirrel]

I was at the casino yeasterday and met a very intersting guy who actually claimed that he was able to count cards. He actually said this sitting at the table in a not so low voice .
He was also of the oppinion that you should hit 12 agains anything that the dealer had and stop on anything over that. It also seemed to be a good idea to split 10:s as offen as not. I am still not able to kepp my count through a whole shoe but I am fairly sure that the count wasn't high enough to justify those splits. He later said that he was to drunk(true) to keep a good count and that that was the reason he was losing money.
He did have a betting spread(3-100 dollar) but i doubt it had anything to do with the count.
Well even though he claimed to be a counter the pit boss didn't seem to mind him. For this small casino he is what u could call a highroller and he wasn't winning, eventually leaving being down with 300.
Has anyone else encountered one of these expert card counters before?

I wasn't very bright either though betting more than i wanted to, in a shoe that i was pretty sure had a negative count, in an attempt to win back the 5 dollar I lost so far. I eventually lost more than I ever have before.
Damn my lack of selfcontrol:flame: .

 

[sagefr0g]

I wasn't very bright either though betting more than i wanted to, in a shoe that i was pretty sure had a negative count, in an attempt to win back the 5 dollar I lost so far. I eventually lost more than I ever have before.
Damn my lack of selfcontrol:flame: .

never have experienced anyone that broadcasted the fact that they could count.
regarding the chasing loss's and playing disadvantage situations....
it's good that you recognize this. most of us have probably done it. don't beat your self up over it but definately get a handle on it. very important.

best regards,
mr fr0g

 

[Canceler]

Has anyone else encountered one of these expert card counters before?

There was one guy who would try to predict every card that was dealt. He was wrong more often than probablility would suggest. On the rare occasion when he would get one right, he would say, that's why they call me Rainman!

Upon being dealt a blackjack, he'd say he knew he was going to get that. The dealer's response was, then why didn't you bet more?

Between all of this, he would advise us on how we should have played our hands.

He was entertaining for awhile, but it quickly got old, so I started avoiding tables he was at. Haven't seen him for some time.

 

[blackjacksquirrel]

never have experienced anyone that broadcasted the fact that they could count.
regarding the chasing loss's and playing disadvantage situations....
it's good that you recognize this. most of us have probably done it. don't beat your self up over it but definately get a handle on it. very important.

best regards,
mr fr0g

Yeah i definetly think I learned my lesson. I am usually kind of cheap and i really hate losing money so I will not forget this.
Atleast I have enough selfcontrol to stick with basick strategy. it is kind of frustrating when u have to surrender maybe 6 or 7 out of 10 hands and then see the dealer bust on every single one of them. I gave my self a pat on the shoulder the next time i surrender when it actually payed off

 

[sagefr0g]

Yeah i definetly think I learned my lesson. I am usually kind of cheap and i really hate losing money so I will not forget this.

good, good! i've got the same sort of personality with regards to the cheapness and hating to lose money.... gambing makes me even more like that... unfortunately i think those traits work to make one lean towards chasing loss's and stubbornly playing through disadvantageous situations.
gotta be on constant guard against such folley. :whip:

Atleast I have enough selfcontrol to stick with basick strategy. it is kind of frustrating when u have to surrender maybe 6 or 7 out of 10 hands and then see the dealer bust on every single one of them. I gave my self a pat on the shoulder the next time i surrender when it actually payed off

i know what you mean. another one for me is when you double down on a hard eleven and get the Ace..... jeesh.... but at least the dealer could still bust. and it's good to realize that the crucial thing is not so much those hands we are experiencing right now but how those hands hash out in the long run.

best regards,
mr fr0g

 

[Canceler]

it is kind of frustrating when u have to surrender maybe 6 or 7 out of 10 hands and then see the dealer bust on every single one of them.

Even more fun is when you surrender your 16 and see the next card dealt is a 5, usually to someone who definitely did not want a 5. That's another one of those things that seems to happen more often than it should!

Speaking of dumb things:

Why is it that, in a casino which allows surrender at only a few tables, those tables are packed with people who proudly proclaim they never surrender?

 

[Cardcounter]

Some of the dumb things are smart!!!

Always split Ace's and 8's is not dumb at all it is using basic stragedy to play your hand!!!

I prefer shoe games with the rules on single deck games these days shoe games are offering close to the odds on single deck games and sometimes they have odds that are 3 times better than single deck games that pay 6 to 5 for blackjack!!! As sad as that is, that shoes can be better than single deck games thats the truth.

Here is what is dumb always insure a 20 that sure is dumb!!!

Smart people insure to win insurance not to protect their own hand!

 

[azbetsgonewild]

Yeah, the one time I got "asked to leave" was when I took insurance bets on stiffs 3 times in a row and was right each time.

Thats rediculous, they should be happy when you take insurance, you on average have a 70% chance of being wrong, I would have tore that dealer a new you know what.

I know some casinos want absolutely everyone to lose, and get pissy if you win, those said places are pathetic. I remember one such casino back in Iowa, it was to put it bluntly a S-hole, low table limits $5-$30, on a busy night it was $100, the dealer/pitboss(he dealt a few shoes and then was the boss for a few other) would get errogant everytime he would pull a 21, I almost wanted to wait for him to leave for the night and give him a piece of my mind.

 

[Preston]

Thats rediculous, they should be happy when you take insurance, you on average have a 70% chance of being wrong, I would have tore that dealer a new you know what.

I know some casinos want absolutely everyone to lose, and get pissy if you win, those said places are pathetic. I remember one such casino back in Iowa, it was to put it bluntly a S-hole, low table limits $5-$30, on a busy night it was $100, the dealer/pitboss(he dealt a few shoes and then was the boss for a few other) would get errogant everytime he would pull a 21, I almost wanted to wait for him to leave for the night and give him a piece of my mind.

Which casino was this? Was it, by chance, Terribles????

I only took insurance in that case because the count justified taking insurance. I don't remember the count, but I know it was high enough. Especially since I got small cards.

I would have about a 70% chance of being wrong on the insurance bet if the count was around 0.

 

[ColorMeUp]

PS did you check out the idiot on here who asked: "is there ever a high count situation where it is a good idea to double down on a natural 21?"
It wasn't at a table, but it is definately the stupidist blackjack question I have ever heard.

Why do more and more tables have on their rule card "No doubling on a two card count of 21?"

It would seem to me that the casinos wouldn't mind people doing this if it's such a bad play. Or, is there some point where the count is high enough that this is the proper play and they're trying to prevent an AP from executing it?

 

[ScottH]

Why do more and more tables have on their rule card "No doubling on a two card count of 21?"

It would seem to me that the casinos wouldn't mind people doing this if it's such a bad play. Or, is there some point where the count is high enough that this is the proper play and they're trying to prevent an AP from executing it?

The count can get high enough to double down on soft 21, but never on a natural of course.