backoffs per day

paddywhack said:
I agree with a few points. One, you need a decent spread to beat most shoe games, at least from a play all perspective. Two, most red and green chippers should forget about costly cover plays. Three, many places will tolerate larger spreads than you think


As for the back offs. I have been backed off, in Vegas, and no, not at EC, and with a much smaller spread than 1-20 green. So they do happen. ;)
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I should add, until recently I have only played shoe games. I guarantee red/green chippers can spread 20 to 1 or even 40 to 1 without being backed off in shoe game.
 
BJgenius007 said:
Personally I have never seen one single person backed off just for counting. And I have played a lot of BJ in AC and LV. I spread 1 to 20 playing green chips. I am pretty sure even some casino knowing I am counting and winning, they don't bother backing me off because this is covered in their biz expense. So I have never believe in those backoff stories I read. I also believe it is other AP spreading paranoid to curb AP population.

By the way, I have seen other counters spread $25 to $950 and the casino didn't do anything about it. So 40 to 1 spread might be the limit for the green chippers. My advice for red and green chippers, especially novice counters, is that don't let other APs scare you. Do your best on counting. Don't be afraid to spread. And don't do stupid things for the "cover".
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BJgenius007, the reason you haven’t been backed off is because you weren’t perceived as a credible threat.
If you start winning serious money, then you will certainly get backed off.
I have been backed off at one of the most tolerant places, Foxwoods.
Just because you haven’t been backed off doesn’t mean that back offs don’t occur.
You’re naïve to believe that your limited experiences have any meaning or significance in the grand scheme of things.
For you to say that you don’t believe stories of back off is terribly ignorant.
 
Bringing the Icy Hot

ArcticInferno said:
If you start winning serious money, then you will certainly get backed off. Just because you haven’t been backed off doesn’t mean that back offs don’t occur.
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I agree
&
betting big
buying in big, even if losing
can draw heat, that can bring problems
If you don't do the above then one has little knowledge of what heat is, and it's consequences.

:joker::whip:
good cards
 
ArcticInferno said:
BJgenius007, the reason you haven’t been backed off is because you weren’t perceived as a credible threat.
If you start winning serious money, then you will certainly get backed off.
I have been backed off at one of the most tolerant places, Foxwoods.
Just because you haven’t been backed off doesn’t mean that back offs don’t occur.
You’re naïve to believe that your limited experiences have any meaning or significance in the grand scheme of things.
For you to say that you don’t believe stories of back off is terribly ignorant.
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Hehe. If I truly believe no one is backed off, I would have spread 100 to 1 or play black chips. But I believe the back off stories are highly exaggerated by people who have agenda (APs don't want to share the pie. casino spread false information to scare new counters etc). Someone asked my winning units. I can say it is much higher than the average. I am definitely a threat if the casinos' concern is if anyone winning money. But I am not a threat to casinos' bottom line. I am using advance omega II with ace side count. Ace carries the same weight as ten when it is coming to betting, not just half weight like people using Zen or Hi Opt II. People may earn more units if they have higher spread ratio. But no one can beat me when he is restricted to 20 to 1 spread.

In short, it is better for newbie counters and red/green chippers to believe those back off stores are false.
 
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Heat & Backoffs Huge Variables

They do happen but under what circumstances?:

Your bets
Your spread
Your hand plays
Your history, if you have one
Are you up or down
Mood of pit
Mood of management
Bettors around you
Your appearance
Your act
Skill of security
Dealer
Players around you and what they are doing
what employees are doing around you

I am sure I missed some

Shaken not Stirred of all these variables can determine what happens to you.

Wether one is ever backed off or not can have very little to do with skill. If you happen to look like the guy sleeping with the pits wife, then that could almost be enough. Perhaps a team meeting that morning stressing game protection or a bad evaluation could get a pit on tilt right when you come in. A person is capable of quite irrational decisions.

:joker::whip:
good cards
 
BJgenius007 said:
Hehe. If I truly believe no one is backed off, I would have spread 100 to 1 or play black chips. But I believe the back off stories are highly exaggerated by people who have agenda (APs don't want to share the pie. casino spread false information to scare new counters etc). Someone asked my winning units. I can say it is much higher than the average. I am definitely a threat if the casinos' concern is if anyone winning money. But I am not a threat to casinos' bottom line. I am using advance omega II with ace side count. Ace carries the same weight as ten when it is coming to betting, not just half weight like people using Zen or Hi Opt II. People may earn more units if they have higher spread ratio. But no one can beat me when he is restricted to 20 to 1 spread.

In short, it is better for newbie counters and red/green chippers to believe those back off stores are false.
Click to expand...
Whoa, Nellie! I am the consummate scaredy-cat when it comes to back offs. I see surveillance breathing down my neck when there's no one there; I play as if the eye has nothing better to do than watch my puny game. I practice so many covers I can hardly catch myself counting.

So where did I get backed off? You guessed it, betting lightly, X4 or 5 in a little DD game in Vegas. I had been to every casino on the strip with nary a hint of heat and I play at this fairly new property and get pulled over for speeding. I was more threat to myself than the house, and was already $500 down, when I got the proverbial tap. At least it was reassuring that someone in the universe felt I was a risk.

Actually, I did pretty well that trip, but when it comes to heat evasion, I have more moves than Ex-lax. If I can get backed off entirely because I raised my bet 4 or 5 times in plus territory, anyone anywhere can get backed off with the styles they have depicted here in the forum. I like to play-all with wonging out as appropriate. I don't mind marathons. Up until this year, I have always played "RATED." Now I play unrated.

I seldom spread more than 1 to 10, but seriously, I have had discernible heat with my modest game, heat that was more than imagined. In the instance where I got backed off, I sensed the heat, but I disregarded it because I was playing such an innocuous game. My advice-- when you feel heat, believe it, even when you think, "How can this be?"
 
My advice: avoid backoffs, but don't fear them. They're like penalties in a football game; too many and you lose the game, none, and you're not playing aggressively enough to win the game.

Once I get more than one in a day I know word is out that I'm in town, and it's time to either blow town or do something else that won't attract their attention.
 
Automatic Monkey said:
My advice: avoid backoffs, but don't fear them. They're like penalties in a football game; too many and you lose the game, none, and you're not playing aggressively enough to win the game.

Once I get more than one in a day I know word is out that I'm in town, and it's time to either blow town or do something else that won't attract their attention.
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My humble two cents,...
I would be happy to play without any heat (or penalties in the football analogy).
 
Never been backed off. My bet range is £5-£150. I guess they just don't care about my small volume when they have idiots playing a grand a hand.
 
pit15 said:
I would consider getting half shoed a backoff. Your player card (if you used one) is burned, and you might need to stay away from that shift for a while. It's really not much different from being told your action isn't welcome anymore. Either way you've been identified.
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You make sense but....
In each of the places i got halfshoed I eventually got unhalfshoed AND they dont even have player cards. (These places are all way away from nevada and they were just guessing; surveillance doesnt know how to count. I did avoid certain places for a while but at the one place where ive played 500+ hrs, my half shoe lasted 45minutes!
I know this becuz the dealer, whom im friendly with (a young college looking kid like myself) told me all about it.
He then explained how he told his boss i couldnt be a counter bcuz im always watching the TV, talking, or on my phone. And he further said that the other dealers agreed with him and laughed at his boss, thus prompting me to get unhalfshoed.
So i guess cover plays work sometimes,lol.
 
BJgenius007 said:
Hehe. If I truly believe no one is backed off, I would have spread 100 to 1 or play black chips. But I believe the back off stories are highly exaggerated by people who have agenda (APs don't want to share the pie. casino spread false information to scare new counters etc). Someone asked my winning units. I can say it is much higher than the average. I am definitely a threat if the casinos' concern is if anyone winning money. But I am not a threat to casinos' bottom line. I am using advance omega II with ace side count. Ace carries the same weight as ten when it is coming to betting, not just half weight like people using Zen or Hi Opt II. People may earn more units if they have higher spread ratio. But no one can beat me when he is restricted to 20 to 1 spread.

In short, it is better for newbie counters and red/green chippers to believe those back off stores are false.
Click to expand...

Hidden agenda?!
Dissemination of misinformation by the casinos?!
Scare off new AP’s with horror stories to stunt the AP population growth?!
Listen BJgenius007,... paranoid delusions can be treated with proper medications, and I promise that the voices in your head will go away.
Just kidding! Sorry.
In all seriousness, yes, there’s some hording of the information by the AP’s, but there’s really no conspiracy.
I don’t mind sharing some useful information about casinos and counting in general to help out others.
I have an ultra advanced counting system (level 6 with betting correlation of 1.0), but I’m not ready to share it with everyone, yet.
But that’s in no way a conspiracy. Maybe in the future when I’m done with blackjack, I’ll probably release the count tags, indices, etc.
When you say that people exaggerate their stories, that’s annoying to us.
 
Misdirected paranoia

BJgenious007,
I think you should redirect your paranoia from AP's to surveillance. Besides that, you are preaching to the wrong choir here, trying to tell us that spreads of 1-20, 1-40, etc. won't bring heat.
Way, way too many of us know better from experience!!!!!
You may get away with it in a house or two but I'LL guarantee you that you'll have limited options if you "shop around".

BillyC1
 
NightStalker said:
Information was available to public with the first book of blackjack. Anyone who the knows definition of BC, has the numbers to have BC=1..
That's what we call EoR.
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What about the creativity to give it a cool name like “Hypernova”?
Have the diligence to generate the indices on CVData? Which by the way took several days to run.
Finally properly adjust the index plays for I-18?
Other cool names that were rejected were, Ultranova, Nebula, Euler, and πie.
The name πie comes from the numbers π = 3.14, i the imaginary number, and e = 2.718.
 
ArcticInferno said:
The name πie comes from the numbers π = 3.14, i the imaginary number, and e = 2.718.
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Reminds me of

e^i*π + 1 = 0

unifying all fundamental numbers 0,1, e, π, i in the most beautiful equation known to human kind - while also displaying the most fundamental operators = +, * and ^.
 
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using cvdata is trivial

ArcticInferno said:
Have the diligence to generate the indices on CVData? Which by the way took several days to run.
The name πie comes from the numbers π = 3.14, i the imaginary number, and e = 2.718.
Click to expand...
Using Cvdata doesn't require diligence. There are many APs who write their own program to simulate stuff which Cvdata can't do.
You value of 'πie ' is approximate. Try finding the actual value?
 
Ultra Advanced With Greater Return?

ArcticInferno said:
I have an ultra advanced counting system (level 6 with betting correlation of 1.0),
Click to expand...

Halves is a level 3 with .99 BC
It seems a lot to go up 3 levels in complexity for .01 more in BC? If you use any betting camo at all your advantage? evaporates. Though I can see a sense of accomplishment with your own creation.

good cards
:joker::whip:
 
blackjack avenger said:
Halves is a level 3 with .99 BC
It seems a lot to go up 3 levels in complexity for .01 more in BC? If you use any betting camo at all your advantage? evaporates. Though I can see a sense of accomplishment with your own creation.
Click to expand...

Hm, Halves uses values from -1 to +1½ in ½-steps.... technically it is already a 6-level counting system. Having a count from -2 to +3 in unit steps is fully equivalent to that.
 
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