Computers that scan every bets >.<

[positiveEV]

So, how are we supposed to deal with those computers that scan every bets made all the time and that send signals when it detect a card counter by the way he bets? Are we supposed to bet against the odds to trick this computer or something?

 

[ihate17]

different systems

So, how are we supposed to deal with those computers that scan every bets made all the time and that send signals when it detect a card counter by the way he bets? Are we supposed to bet against the odds to trick this computer or something?

If your casino is just using RFID chips (chips in chips) they are computing your bets for comps etc. The information gathered can be used to identify a counter but the general RFID system itself does not calculate the count so someone first must be suspicious of your play.

If your casino is using a complete table system like Mindplay21, then not only do they know how much you bet, what the count is, but they are capable of knowing the exact order of each and every card NOT YET DEALT, though a recent agreement to settle a pending law case forbids them to transmit count data to the pit without an 8 hand delay. This system is something to be aware of, but you should also know that good counters slaughtered it over and over again in Vegas till now there are no Mindplay machines in Vegas.

So far, I believe every blackjack computer system developed has been defeated with either some simple ploy or a little more advanced. Generally no one will post on a public board exactly how these systems are defeated (the enemy is listening) but with just a little thought once you understand how the things work, you can do it also.

One last thing to remember: These things were not developed to catch cardcounters. Catching us is a supposed side benifit. The reasons for Mindplay were mainly to cut pit and eye staff and also to cut comps. That adds up to far greater savings to a casino than catching card counters. The fact that pit staffs figure this out eventually (or by going to the manufacturers website) and players are superstitious of machines at their tables, so far doom these things to failure in areas where the player has a choice.

ihate17

 

[sagefr0g]

... This system is something to be aware of, but you should also know that good counters slaughtered it over and over again in Vegas till now there are no Mindplay machines in Vegas.

So far, I believe every blackjack computer system developed has been defeated with either some simple ploy or a little more advanced. Generally no one will post on a public board exactly how these systems are defeated (the enemy is listening) but with just a little thought once you understand how the things work, you can do it also.

...

ihate17

this calls to mind how some chess masters beat some advanced computers and chess software that was aided by programers and other chess masters.
one way it was done was to just make moves that were wrong headed, unexpected and that didn't compromise their game. apparently the computer couldn't handle that.

 

[zengrifter]

Mindplay is history. zg

 

[ihate17]

Yes and no

Mindplay is history. zg

Zengrifter:

Mindplay is history in Vegas and will most likely continue to fail in Vegas if re-introduced, but it is still at El Dorado and I think Crystal Bay in Northern Nevada and a few Indian Casinos.

I had heard about a year ago that Mohegan Sun had ordered it. I wonder if it is in Macau.

Knowing what happened at the El Dorado, one must really be suspicious if they find it installed in an unregulated Indian Casino.

Anyway, dead in Vegas but not buried yet and you know there is someone working on a new one right now.

ihate17

 

[positiveEV]

Zengrifter:

I wonder if it is in Macau.

I think they use electric shufflers there, they don't have to worry about card counters.

 

[positiveEV]

I just don't see why it's that hard to create one, just scan every card that come out and let the computer do every possible card counting system all the time (it will take no time to the computer), then let him convert to TC exactly, to quarter-deck and to half-deck for every system that require it, then it calculate how much a normal counter would bet there and if a player bet this amount of unit many times, the computer will put a red flag on him and calculate if he use system-X to count cards and bet, then if he change table the pit boss just say it to the computer so that since the computer scanned every tables he know the player is maybe counting multiple tables at once, etc.

Just thought about that =/
Would be kind of hard to manage against that and any good computer could do that >.<

 

[ihate17]

That is what mindplay already does, plus:

I just don't see why it's that hard to create one, just scan every card that come out and let the computer do every possible card counting system all the time (it will take no time to the computer), then let him convert to TC exactly, to quarter-deck and to half-deck for every system that require it, then it calculate how much a normal counter would bet there and if a player bet this amount of unit many times, the computer will put a red flag on him and calculate if he use system-X to count cards and bet, then if he change table the pit boss just say it to the computer so that since the computer scanned every tables he know the player is maybe counting multiple tables at once, etc.

Just thought about that =/
Would be kind of hard to manage against that and any good computer could do that >.<

Mindplay does all of this plus it knows the exact order of all the cards, so it could tell if you are getting a blackjack on the next hand or not.
Still, it is easy for counters to beat because it defeats straight counting and the pit and eye depend on it. What that means is that it catches the amatuer counter, the counter who probably is a lifetime loser anyway, but is useless against those advanced players with just a little bit of imagination. The human mind (it does not take a great mind either) can throw curves and double team a computer into uselessness.

ihate17