I am looking to play blackjack once to twice a month at a $5/10 minimum bet, but i can't justify doing so without knowing i have the edge...i don't want to spend 200 hours learning the most complex system, so what system (with best book for it) would best suit my needs? I am definitely willing to put some time into learning it, and I have always been good at math.
Best System for occasional player
- Thread starter jp555
- Start date
Automatic Monkey
Banned
High-Low. You can learn it for free at the Gamesmaster website.
Just understand that no system works if all you are willing to bet is 5/10.
You need to be willing to up your minimum bets at least 4X to begin to make any money.Even then,say you average $15 a bet,play 60 rounds an hour for 10 hours a month. You will wager about $7500,and if you play perfectly,see around $75 total winnings.
In all honesty,if you can't see yourself getting to the point where you are playing a minimum of $25 a hand,its not worth investing the time.
You can print a basic strategy card off many websites,invest no time studying,bet $5/10 for 10 hours a month and your losses will be about one dollar an hour.
You want to play with a slight edge? Play with your players card.You'll get a comped buffet in many places after a few hours play,and look for matchplay coupons and promo events.
You need to be willing to up your minimum bets at least 4X to begin to make any money.Even then,say you average $15 a bet,play 60 rounds an hour for 10 hours a month. You will wager about $7500,and if you play perfectly,see around $75 total winnings.
In all honesty,if you can't see yourself getting to the point where you are playing a minimum of $25 a hand,its not worth investing the time.
You can print a basic strategy card off many websites,invest no time studying,bet $5/10 for 10 hours a month and your losses will be about one dollar an hour.
You want to play with a slight edge? Play with your players card.You'll get a comped buffet in many places after a few hours play,and look for matchplay coupons and promo events.
supercoolmancool
Well-Known Member
I'm pretty sure he meant that he plays at 5 and 10 dollar minimum tables. And I can't not recommend free Hi Lo, but the next best thing would be to buy Knock-Out Blackjack. KO is the easiest professional system and it is just as good as Hi Lo.
I,and a number of forumites, use KO.A pretty simple system. Another really easy system is KISS,detailed in Fred Renzis excellant Blackjack Bluebook2.
The best book I have read for beginning players,although not particularly popular,is The Womans Guide to Blackjack,by Angie Marshall.I'm a guy but I found her storytelling quite informative and she had a unique approach to counting that most books don't contain.
http://www.wizardofodds.com offers a very easy and simple Ace/five count that is expandable when you are ready to move up.
The best book I have read for beginning players,although not particularly popular,is The Womans Guide to Blackjack,by Angie Marshall.I'm a guy but I found her storytelling quite informative and she had a unique approach to counting that most books don't contain.
http://www.wizardofodds.com offers a very easy and simple Ace/five count that is expandable when you are ready to move up.
JP; If you're firm about remaining a "recreational" one-or-twice a month player at say, $5-to-$50 or $10-to-$90 spreads, then I wouldn't recommend a full blown system like HI/LO.
You mentioned being good in math, so a recreational level "plus/minus" system may fit your wants/needs -- or easier yet (but less potent) are two simpler non-plus/minus counts.
The absolutely simplest method anywhere is the Ace/10 Front Count. No plus/minusing (just tallying up the Ace/10's together) and NO counting beyond the first two decks of the shoe. This is truly a "bare-bones", marginally positive recreational system. Source: Blackjack Bluebook II; $16.50
Next above that is Scoblete's Speed Count. Not exactly a plus/minus either, but adds up the 2's thru 6's and subtracts that from the number of hands at the table. Thus, it infers whether the number of played low cards has been light, normal or heavy at any given point. There's less error with this system in the shoe game than in single or double deck. It's modestly stronger and tougher to learn than the Ace/10 Front count. Source: Golden Touch Blackjack Revolution; $24.95
The first level of plus/minus counting systems is the unbalanced KISS Count. It's actually a family of three upgradable counts -- entry level, intermediate and full scale. The entry level (KISS I) pits just the "paints" (Jacks, Queens and Kings) against the 4's, 5's and 6's, along with the black deuces for unbalancing purposes. You can upgrade to KISS II later by simply adding the 3 on the low side and the 10-spot on the high side to your count structure. The full scale KISS III then adds the 7 on the low side and the Ace on the high side to its count structure. It comes with a beginner list of 6 deviations from basic strategy all activated at the same modestly positive count -- and later, 21 individually indexed deviations that go just beyond the illustrious 18. Source: Blackjack Bluebook II; $16.50
All these systems are easier to learn than HI/LO -- and the KISS III performs on par with HI/LO, KO and Red 7.
You mentioned being good in math, so a recreational level "plus/minus" system may fit your wants/needs -- or easier yet (but less potent) are two simpler non-plus/minus counts.
The absolutely simplest method anywhere is the Ace/10 Front Count. No plus/minusing (just tallying up the Ace/10's together) and NO counting beyond the first two decks of the shoe. This is truly a "bare-bones", marginally positive recreational system. Source: Blackjack Bluebook II; $16.50
Next above that is Scoblete's Speed Count. Not exactly a plus/minus either, but adds up the 2's thru 6's and subtracts that from the number of hands at the table. Thus, it infers whether the number of played low cards has been light, normal or heavy at any given point. There's less error with this system in the shoe game than in single or double deck. It's modestly stronger and tougher to learn than the Ace/10 Front count. Source: Golden Touch Blackjack Revolution; $24.95
The first level of plus/minus counting systems is the unbalanced KISS Count. It's actually a family of three upgradable counts -- entry level, intermediate and full scale. The entry level (KISS I) pits just the "paints" (Jacks, Queens and Kings) against the 4's, 5's and 6's, along with the black deuces for unbalancing purposes. You can upgrade to KISS II later by simply adding the 3 on the low side and the 10-spot on the high side to your count structure. The full scale KISS III then adds the 7 on the low side and the Ace on the high side to its count structure. It comes with a beginner list of 6 deviations from basic strategy all activated at the same modestly positive count -- and later, 21 individually indexed deviations that go just beyond the illustrious 18. Source: Blackjack Bluebook II; $16.50
All these systems are easier to learn than HI/LO -- and the KISS III performs on par with HI/LO, KO and Red 7.
zengrifter
Banned
While Bluebook stands on its own merit as a contribution to BJ-count-facillitated advantage play, I disagree with Renzey - Speed Count is NOT recommended, nor is Ace/10 count. Either of these "systems" will cost you in the longhaul - better off to just use Basic strategy. zg
If you can easily to true-count conversions then learn HI-Lo. If you have any trouble with that then learn KO. I would not recommend learning any system that's easier than KO. KO is definitely the easiest professional level system. I hear there are some easier systems, but they are considerably weaker, so dont bother with them.
My recommendations:
1. KO (It's really easy!)
2. Hi-Lo (slightly harder than KO, and very close in strength to KO)
My recommendations:
1. KO (It's really easy!)
2. Hi-Lo (slightly harder than KO, and very close in strength to KO)
I think maybe because of mistakes where as, BS is stright forward and when a rec player is up, they tend to leave the table.
My 2 cents.
They have a lot more variance than just BS, and the win-rate from those 2 counts are not nearly as good as a professional level system.
EasyRhino
Well-Known Member
The basic intro to KO is here:
http://www.koblackjack.com/K-O_Rookie_System.html (Archive copy)
And I think here's the link to the gamemaster stuff on Hi-Lo:
http://www.gamemasteronline.com/indexa.shtml?GameMasters/GameMasterClassicsIndex.shtml (Archive copy)
http://www.koblackjack.com/K-O_Rookie_System.html (Archive copy)
And I think here's the link to the gamemaster stuff on Hi-Lo:
http://www.gamemasteronline.com/indexa.shtml?GameMasters/GameMasterClassicsIndex.shtml (Archive copy)
?????
Time for another of my STUPID questions...Can someone tell me the actual, TRUE difference between K-O, Red-7 and KISS? An I missing something important here? I have been working on the Red-7 ('cause it was the first book I read that had something that seemed to meet my math skills), read Rezney's book and am learning his indice changes to flesh Snyder's out, have looked over K-O, and still wonder about some of the arguments about which is best, so again...
WHAT is the difference? Or is it just personal preference for what we call 'em?
-EPS
Time for another of my STUPID questions...Can someone tell me the actual, TRUE difference between K-O, Red-7 and KISS? An I missing something important here? I have been working on the Red-7 ('cause it was the first book I read that had something that seemed to meet my math skills), read Rezney's book and am learning his indice changes to flesh Snyder's out, have looked over K-O, and still wonder about some of the arguments about which is best, so again...
WHAT is the difference? Or is it just personal preference for what we call 'em?
-EPS
If you're talking about system differences they are all unbalanced, but they have different counting tags.
If you're talking about EV differences, well, it depends on what game you are comparing them in. From what I've heard, on average, they are all about the same.
Only one I can comment on is KISS.
With KISS,you start with a very simple system and add more cards to it as you progress.
While all three are unbalanced,which means you don't need to constantly convert the running count to the true count,I don't know if the other two systems mentioned are expandable,as KISS is.
With KISS,you start with a very simple system and add more cards to it as you progress.
While all three are unbalanced,which means you don't need to constantly convert the running count to the true count,I don't know if the other two systems mentioned are expandable,as KISS is.