Taking On Investors

Coyote

Coyote

Well-Known Member
I have a non-AP associate that has offered three times to invest in my game. He would like to deposit a lump sum into my bankroll. Any advice as to how to handle such a proposition? Should I execute a contract to protect us both?

Thanks
Coyote
 
Coyote said:
I have a non-AP associate that has offered three times to invest in my game. He would like to deposit a lump sum into my bankroll. Any advice as to how to handle such a proposition? Should I execute a contract to protect us both?

Thanks
Coyote
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unless you have a written and understood contract you are headed for a failurel
 
Coyote said:
I have a non-AP associate that has offered three times to invest in my game. He would like to deposit a lump sum into my bankroll. Any advice as to how to handle such a proposition? Should I execute a contract to protect us both?

Thanks
Coyote
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Coyote said:
Currently I am up 500 units.
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Sounds like you're doing reasonably well, so why bother taking on an investor? Maybe if things start going badly and you need additional funds, but otherwise it would be a bad EV move IMO.
 
21gunsalute said:
Sounds like you're doing reasonably well, so why bother taking on an investor? Maybe if things start going badly and you need additional funds, but otherwise it would be a bad EV move IMO.
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The cash infusion would elevate my bet level. This may allow me to play games with better rules.
 
I guess if I were to let him invest then I could approach it as a team contract with him being a non-player. I believe Arnold Snyder covers some of this in his book Blackbelt in Blackjack.
 
Like the AP's said, a contract would weed out any problematic legal confrontation. If he is willing to invest enough to increase your minimum bet which STILL maintains a very low RoR then I'd say do it. We all know the long run is what counts, so how could you possibly fail with a .2%-.5% RoR? Just get in as many hands as possible to reach the long run quicker. I wouldnt waiste his time if you aren't going to play $25 minimum though. I believe this minimum bet is where a layman, your investor, will see the most improvement in your BR. The reason I say this is because he's probably more concerned with how much he's trying to make in return, and explaining to him what good variance and EV are at a $5-$10 minimum table will simply turn him off :cry:
 
I would make sure he really understands the kind of variance you might take. You should also make clear exactly what is an expense that comes out of the bankroll and what is not. You should also outline what happens if you get barred a lot from this higher bet level and decide to quit playing while the bank roll is stuck. The more you can make clear ahead of time the better for both of you.
 
Richard Munchkin said:
I would make sure he really understands the kind of variance you might take. You should also make clear exactly what is an expense that comes out of the bankroll and what is not. You should also outline what happens if you get barred a lot from this higher bet level and decide to quit playing while the bank roll is stuck. The more you can make clear ahead of time the better for both of you.
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I can't wrap my brain around the idea of not playing blackjack! Getting barred? Really? I can see a back-off, but barred... nah!!!!;)
 
Most investor arrangements fail

The only types of investor arrangements that are likely to stand a chance of success are with fellow AP's who you have known a long time and trust totally. Civilians/ploppies investing in advantage play is usually a recipe for disaster. Stay away from it. You are better off not playing blackjack until you can build a reasonable bankroll; perhaps take a second or third job and put that money into your bankroll.

Or you can do a Hail Mary play with your apparently small bankroll. If you lose it all, so what? If it's so small that an investor can make a significant difference in your game selection, you should be able to easily rebuild the bankroll.

As for Coyote's comments about getting barred, I assume from the emoticon that the comment was intended as a joke. If you play for more than chump change, barrings and casino nastiness are just a routine part of the game.
 
LVBear584 said:
The only types of investor arrangements that are likely to stand a chance of success are with fellow AP's who you have known a long time and trust totally. Civilians/ploppies investing in advantage play is usually a recipe for disaster. Stay away from it. You are better off not playing blackjack until you can build a reasonable bankroll; perhaps take a second or third job and put that money into your bankroll.

Or you can do a Hail Mary play with your apparently small bankroll. If you lose it all, so what? If it's so small that an investor can make a significant difference in your game selection, you should be able to easily rebuild the bankroll.

As for Coyote's comments about getting barred, I assume from the emoticon that the comment was intended as a joke. If you play for more than chump change, barrings and casino nastiness are just a routine part of the game.
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I appreciate your advice. My associate's offer is a first for me so I want to be carefull with this situation and do the right thing.

Thanks again,
Coyote
 
It's a free roll for you, but it puts him in a terrible position imo. He has no idea what he's getting into and for this reason, I would defer to what LVBear says in his post.

I've invested in many different individuals and teams. I have come out slightly ahead overall, but it definitely hasn't been worth it in my opinion. I've had people steal from me, quit on me, play stupid games they had no business playing, probably had people not give their best effort, etc. At least as the player, you can personally guarantee that won't happen. As an investor, you really never know. Sometimes the guy who seems solid, changes his stripes when the BR is down 80k and his wife is bugging him about the leaky roof or whatever.
 
Coyote

Get a contract with the investor and do it.

Let him know there is no guarantee of return, and I will help you out on this venture in any way I can.

CP
 
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Coyote said:
I have a non-AP associate that has offered three times to invest in my game. He would like to deposit a lump sum into my bankroll. Any advice as to how to handle such a proposition? Should I execute a contract to protect us both?
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Yes, a contract of course. What formula are you thinking? zg
 
zengrifter said:
The simple formula is to give equal weight to investment$s and pro-play time. zg
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So, any profit from his money invested would be split 50/50?
Say we have a $1,000 profit, I have invested 25% of the bankroll and he, 75%.
Does that mean I would take $250 and then we split the remaining $750?
 
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