12 vs. 4

[ningtong88]

I use Mentor and the indices from the BB II book, it says hit if 0 or less. Why is it different from BS, I thought BS is really based on when count is 0? This one always drive other ploppies nuts, I try to only do it during heads up. 13 vs. 3 or 12 vs. 3 is another one plopplies go nuts about.

 

[bigplayer]

Basic Strategy does not Imply a count of Zero

I use Mentor and the indices from the BB II book, it says hit if 0 or less. Why is it different from BS, I thought BS is really based on when count is 0? This one always drive other ploppies nuts, I try to only do it during heads up. 13 vs. 3 or 12 vs. 3 is another one plopplies go nuts about.

You would be wrong. Basic strategy is not based on a count of 0. It's based on a freshly shuffled game with a certain number of decks and an average of all possible hands for each possible situation. That is why for a single deck game basic strategy says double 5,3 vs 6 (count is +3) but six deck basic strategy says do not double 5,3 vs 6 (count is roughly +0.5),

 

[The Chaperone]

And when you think about it, when you are dealt 12 vs. 4 off the top of a freshly shuffled shoe, the count is always positive; either +1 or +2 HiLo.

 

[Friendo]

Had a table to myself

Drove away a ploppy with this play once.

He wailed, grabbed his chips, and ran.

Good times!

 

[Gamblor]

Drove away a ploppy with this play once.

He wailed, grabbed his chips, and ran.

Good times!

Should have done it with 12 v 6 in the anchor seat, get a 9, dealer flips over a 10 and gets a 4. Sure that ploppy's head would have exploded!

 

[ningtong88]

You would be wrong. Basic strategy is not based on a count of 0. It's based on a freshly shuffled game with a certain number of decks and an average of all possible hands for each possible situation. That is why for a single deck game basic strategy says double 5,3 vs 6 (count is +3) but six deck basic strategy says do not double 5,3 vs 6 (count is roughly +0.5),

If it's based on average, wouldn't it be count 0 then?

 

[Friendo]

If it's based on average, wouldn't it be count 0 then?

Counts do not weigh decisions in this way.

Sure, the Mentor count is balanced, but that only means that it sees a full deck, or six decks, as having a total count of zero.

The actual index for a play is based on all counts and all deck compositions which would occur over at least several hundred million rounds, with any number of cards remaining. The correlation of the count with the play - say 12 versus 4 - can differ, because all the particular combinations of remaining cards which give a particular count will correlate differently with that play than would basic strategy.

Put another way, the tag values give you a different sort of information than does basic strategy. The count oscillates around zero (special case of the True Count Theorem), but this does not mean its values for playing purposes will give you basic strategy, because playing decisions are different from your current advantage, which is what the count most closely tracks.