Question on ratholing

FLASH1296 said:
Ploppies do NOT "rathole".

They simply take chips off of the table.
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I have seen a ploppy pocket about three handfulls of reds, then tells me he is doing so by pointing to his pockets, and then pulls them all out and colors-up! All during the same shift and same dealer!

Unreal!

Ok, maybe he wasn't ratholing for the same purpose as an AP. Maybe it was his way of keeping track of his profit for the day.
 
Dyepaintball12 said:
I've played at tons of tables where ploppies rathole. Hell one time a guy who was doing it a lot actually assisted me in doing so...

I was pocketing greens and over several hours I had maybe $800 in greens in my pocket. I go to cash out what's on the table and the PB goes "You played 5 hours and broke even... not bad!"

The Asian lady next to me at this point starts (in broken english) saying "what about the greens in your pocket?" and pointing at it.

The guy at the other end of the table goes "Nope that's all the chips he has. Nice job man." and kept basically talking over her until she gave up :)

I threw a tip down on the table and start walking away and the PB says "What a nice young man." :laugh:
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Today I only made $75 in a $50 min game, but I got tallied up for about $800 in losses via squirreling away that amount in two separate sessions.

I later played two hours of JOB and somehow managed to break even. Then along comes my wife and hands me $220. She said she put five dollars in the machine and was playing 35 cents a pull, when suddenly the machine went crazy. She asked the lady next to her what was happening and was told that she had won 46 free spins. They must have been hellacious spins to accumulate $220 from a 35 cent pull. :laugh:
 
missed the memo

FLASH1296 said:
Surreptitiously removing chips = "ratholing"

The difference is not semantic.
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Flash I am surprised you are not up with current events. In an effort to improve the image of counters the term "ratholing" is no longer politically correct. It shows counters in a bad light. The new and correct term now being used to convey pocketing chips is "checking for crabs"
 
blackjack avenger said:
Flash I am surprised you are not up with current events. In an effort to improve the image of counters the term "ratholing" is no longer politically correct. It shows counters in a bad light. The new and correct term now being used to convey pocketing chips is "checking for crabs"
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Er... that's "cheque-ing" for crabs! As in the expression, "Cheques play!" If you do find crabs, I suggest a trip to the restroom and a tube of blue ointment. Be careful not to get it on your chips; it may create unwanted attention when you cash them in. :cool2:
 
aslan said:
Er... that's "cheque-ing" for crabs! As in the expression, "Cheques play!" If you do find crabs, I suggest a trip to the restroom and a tube of blue ointment. Be careful not to get it on your chips; it may create unwanted attention when you cash them in. :cool2:
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You sound like an expert on the subject, Aslan.
 
21gunsalute said:
You sound like an expert on t:ohe subject, Aslan.
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:laugh::laugh:

Regrettably, I must plead guilty based upon a somewhat ill-spent youth. :o It recalls an old Jesuit adage, "You don't have to jump in the lake to know you're going to get wet." Unfortunately, I learned much of what I know the hard way, not the intelligent way.:o:whip:
 
I didn't want to point out you knew the color of what I guess is the cure. I managed to dodge a visit from those little buggers so far.
 
aslan said:
:laugh::laugh:

Regrettably, I must plead guilty based upon a somewhat ill-spent youth. :o It recalls an old Jesuit adage, "You don't have to jump in the lake to know you're going to get wet." Unfortunately, I learned much of what I know the hard way, not the intelligent way.:o:whip:
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Pun intended?? :eek:
 
Inventory

All casinos keep close tabs on the inventory in the tray. In AC for instance, the tray is counted out completely not only as soon as a table empties but during the course of play to some extent. Black chips are watched closely to see who has them or where they might have gone off to. If the pit supervisor is unsure of exactly where any of the black chip inventory went off to, they will ask the dealer who gives their "best guess" and the pit supervisor records this. The pit supervisor will make notes of numbers of black chips going out during play and eye up the black chips in the tray upon a player leaving the table.

I'm not sure how accurate this could possibly be or just how accountable the pit is held for the black chip inventory but I have overheard conversations between dealers and pit people in which they had some confusion or discrepancy over quantities of black chips and where they went to. They were making a big deal of it, so obviously pit personnel are supposed to be keeping very accurate track of black (and higher) chips and exactly who takes them.

In other words, if a group of players is at a table and multiple players are playing black chips, the pit makes their best attempt to define exactly how many black chips went out, just exactly who left the table with how many and if they fall short of what the total should be they simply tag one or more of the players as having left the table with any of these chips missing in order to account for every single one of them.

In other words, "ratholing" black chips is obviously not going to work so well. Green chips are a horse (or a chip) of another color though! If you are at a full table with lots of green chips slinging around it seems to me that you could pocket some green chips quite easily and it would be much more difficult for them to determine exactly where they went.

This is AC I am talking about though. I have played in places out west that the "high roller pit" consisted of $25 minimum bets, the rest of the casino had $5-$15 min. tables and they about sh*t their pants and want to see ID at the cage if you are cashing out $2500 or more in chips. What was going through my mind in playing at places like this? Well, things like "Wow, I guess these people treat management and inventory of green chips like they do black chips in AC!" I envisioned them scrambling to count out every red chip in the tray upon my leaving the table and holding up the game to do it. I bet it would be a hell of a time trying to "rathole" any chips in that joint!

In a large casino, I wonder just how much coordination there is between the pit personnel and the cashier's cage but a casino such as the one I mentioned with the $25 min "high roller pit"? What people are cashing out is much easier to follow quite closely. I know they stay right on top of the marker situations even in a very large casino. Obviously if your intent is to "rathole" some chips, you don't want to cash out all your chips at the window and maybe just don't cash out any of them right away unless you need to.

The best way to "rathole" some chips in my opinion? Table hop all over the place! Buy in here and there, bring chips from one table to the next, color some out, buy some more at another table and so on. By the time you get done not only will they be totally confused as to your chip situation but so will you! If there were lots of other players at these various tables you were at it could be quite difficult for the pit to pinpoint exactly how many chips you actually have.
 
If you've chequed for crabs

and you leave with a lot, is it weird/suspicious to just pop in for a minute or two at a later date, for a quick in & out with the cashier?
 
bejammin075 said:
and you leave with a lot, is it weird/suspicious to just pop in for a minute or two at a later date, for a quick in & out with the cashier?
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So who is looking at you at a later date? They don't eye each and every transaction at the cashier window, and it is now sufficiently disconnected from the particular game in which you garnered them, especially if you enter on a different shift. Or-- Just send your girlfriend in to cash them.
 
Afterthought

Two things come to mind with regard to "ratholing" chips. One is that if you are a successful player it becomes impossible to rathole enough chips to show a loss in the overall. Another is something that you would pick up from reading what I wrote about the pit supervisor pinning those chips on someone because they are supposed to be accounting for them all.

Picture a hypothetical situation in which you are at a table with lots of green and black chips slinging back and forth. You squirrel away a short stack of green chips and are quite proud of yourself. After leaving the table, the pit tries to reconcile the chip count but it doesn't add up because two of the people you were playing alongside were also squirreling chips away, coloring up, pulling chips back out, etc. The pit supervisor then simply notes you as taking more chips from the table than you actually took and not less. All the trouble you went to in covertly tucking away those chips means nothing and out of convenience to them the pit pegs you for all the unaccounted for chips instead of just the ones you were responsible for.

Sounds impossible? Hardly... Do you think the pit supervisor cares about anything over and above the "CYA" factor? I'm not sure but I think this "ratholing" may be over-rated and serve little purpose because as I said, it would be all but impossible to rathole enough chips to make it appear that you are taking a loss in the longrun if you are a successful player. Does making less make a difference? How beneficial is it to intentionally rathole chips and what are other people's thoughts on this? Is it a big deal if you can show that you made a few hundred less than what you really made? I've tried to obscure my chip situation before but didn't put a lot of effort into it. I've often wondered about how much difference it makes if any at all.
 
I'm not sure about this

Tarzan said:
if you are a successful player it becomes impossible to rathole enough chips to show a loss in the overall.
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Let's say you are playing as an AP, and though the variance is high, on average, you make, let's say $25 to $100 an hour. If you are routinely in the mode to cheque for crabs, you'll only need to deal with 1 to 4 green chips per hour. Is that not feasable? I still have not actually played as an AP, I'm still in the learning, practicing and studying phase, so I don't know what I'm talking about. But it seems like it should not be much trouble to hide your earnings per hour expectation.
 
Tarzan said:
Two things come to mind with regard to "ratholing" chips. One is that if you are a successful player it becomes impossible to rathole enough chips to show a loss in the overall. Another is something that you would pick up from reading what I wrote about the pit supervisor pinning those chips on someone because they are supposed to be accounting for them all.

Picture a hypothetical situation in which you are at a table with lots of green and black chips slinging back and forth. You squirrel away a short stack of green chips and are quite proud of yourself. After leaving the table, the pit tries to reconcile the chip count but it doesn't add up because two of the people you were playing alongside were also squirreling chips away, coloring up, pulling chips back out, etc. The pit supervisor then simply notes you as taking more chips from the table than you actually took and not less. All the trouble you went to in covertly tucking away those chips means nothing and out of convenience to them the pit pegs you for all the unaccounted for chips instead of just the ones you were responsible for.

Sounds impossible? Hardly... Do you think the pit supervisor cares about anything over and above the "CYA" factor? I'm not sure but I think this "ratholing" may be over-rated and serve little purpose because as I said, it would be all but impossible to rathole enough chips to make it appear that you are taking a loss in the longrun if you are a successful player. Does making less make a difference? How beneficial is it to intentionally rathole chips and what are other people's thoughts on this? Is it a big deal if you can show that you made a few hundred less than what you really made? I've tried to obscure my chip situation before but didn't put a lot of effort into it. I've often wondered about how much difference it makes if any at all.
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What you are saying is plausible, maybe even likely, for a black chipper, but not so for a green chipper. The pit keeps a close watch on every black, and not much gets by them. Only when it appears that some other black chipper is rat-holing chips at your table, do you have much chance to do so yourself. But not so for a green chipper. It is impractical if not impossible for the pit to keep track of both black and above chips and also the abundant quantity of green chips at play in $25 and $50 tables, and even some $100 tables. Greens on those tables are like reds on lower min tables. In my experience, it is not at all difficult to rat-hole green/red chips, and on occasion, black chips, as well. I understand, however, that your experience may vary.
 
Tarzan said:
How beneficial is it to intentionally rathole chips and what are other people's thoughts on this? Is it a big deal if you can show that you made a few hundred less than what you really made? I've tried to obscure my chip situation before but didn't put a lot of effort into it. I've often wondered about how much difference it makes if any at all.
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It can be worth THOUSANDS if you are dilligent at your craft! No joke!
 
1. Ploppies of course rathole chips. If ratholing chips is defined as getting chips off the table to avoid being seen as a winner than yes they do. For taxes, better comps, IDK but they do it.

2. Some casinos do an insanely good job of keeping track of chips. My friend tried to cash out several thousand in chips at a big LV casino but they said they couldn't "assign that many chips to him" after reviewing his play in the computer.
 
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