I don't know where you play, but almost every casino (98%) allow you to drop a hand out and add a hand back even with no Mid-Shoe Entry rules in effect. It's only if you drop out completely that you cannot re-enter the game until the shuffle.
heads up 1 h vs. 2 hands
- Thread starter KingHenry
- Start date
I don't know where you play, but almost every casino (98%) allow you to drop a hand out and add a hand back even with no Mid-Shoe Entry rules in effect. It's only if you drop out completely that you cannot re-enter the game until the shuffle.
FLASH1296
Well-Known Member
While BigPlayer has forgotten more than RingleJames could ever hope to know;
I too have experienced the refusal to permit betting two spots after betting one spot -
in No Mid Shoe DD games. e.g. Station properties. I had experienced this so often
that I had assumed that that was the standard casino practice.
Why Two Hands All the Time
The best way to think about EV is in terms of getting a certain number of shoes per day. If you want to play 25 shoes per day (starting one and wonging out still counts as a shoe played) then you will want to get through those as fast as you can to minimize your time spent exposed to the pit and the eye and so you can spend more time at the pool or watching TV. One shoe in 5 that you start will go positive enough to warrant fairly big bets. When heads up think about the speed at which you can get though each shoe. You can play two hands in one round faster than you can play one hand in each of two rounds. Even factoring in the bet differential you will the chance to play more big shoes and thus get more action per hour always playing two hands in positive counts.
There are also cover benefits...a casino may consider a single bet of $600 to be a bigger threat than two hands of $450. Playing one hand in a big count shoe takes more time thus you will have a greater chance of a mid-shoe backoff. You want to get through those big shoes as quickly as possible and get out the door, hopefully before anyone notices.
Obviously there may be some circumstances where it may benefit you to play (or cut back to) one hand to get as close as possible to the cut card and then expand to two or even three hands to maximize penetration on the last round.
This is one of the oldest arguments in blackjack (1 or 2 hands when heads up). Yes, you use up cards 50% faster with two hands and only put 50% more money on the table so it shouldn't matter whether you play 1 or 2 but there is more to it than action per card dealt when playing two hands means you can get maybe an extra half or 3/4 of a shoe per hour played.
Now heads up in negative counts your best optimal play is to stay at two hands until you reach your exit count and then find another table ASAP to move to. If you are in a case where you just have to grind through then you should probably drop to 1 hand, but realize you're cutting your bet in half but now have 33% more rounds to play to get through the shoe so your action savings is only 17% and it will take you a bit longer to get through the shoe. Obviously if the casino requires 2x the table min to play two hands then cutting back to 1 hand in negative becomes an obviously good move. With other players to eat up negative rounds I always drop to one hand and this often results in the square players adding a hand to maintain the balance (especially Asian Players) which of course has them eating negative rounds even faster. I don't know how to quantify that because it's so unpredictable but it has very high value.
The best way to think about EV is in terms of getting a certain number of shoes per day. If you want to play 25 shoes per day (starting one and wonging out still counts as a shoe played) then you will want to get through those as fast as you can to minimize your time spent exposed to the pit and the eye and so you can spend more time at the pool or watching TV. One shoe in 5 that you start will go positive enough to warrant fairly big bets. When heads up think about the speed at which you can get though each shoe. You can play two hands in one round faster than you can play one hand in each of two rounds. Even factoring in the bet differential you will the chance to play more big shoes and thus get more action per hour always playing two hands in positive counts.
There are also cover benefits...a casino may consider a single bet of $600 to be a bigger threat than two hands of $450. Playing one hand in a big count shoe takes more time thus you will have a greater chance of a mid-shoe backoff. You want to get through those big shoes as quickly as possible and get out the door, hopefully before anyone notices.
Obviously there may be some circumstances where it may benefit you to play (or cut back to) one hand to get as close as possible to the cut card and then expand to two or even three hands to maximize penetration on the last round.
This is one of the oldest arguments in blackjack (1 or 2 hands when heads up). Yes, you use up cards 50% faster with two hands and only put 50% more money on the table so it shouldn't matter whether you play 1 or 2 but there is more to it than action per card dealt when playing two hands means you can get maybe an extra half or 3/4 of a shoe per hour played.
Now heads up in negative counts your best optimal play is to stay at two hands until you reach your exit count and then find another table ASAP to move to. If you are in a case where you just have to grind through then you should probably drop to 1 hand, but realize you're cutting your bet in half but now have 33% more rounds to play to get through the shoe so your action savings is only 17% and it will take you a bit longer to get through the shoe. Obviously if the casino requires 2x the table min to play two hands then cutting back to 1 hand in negative becomes an obviously good move. With other players to eat up negative rounds I always drop to one hand and this often results in the square players adding a hand to maintain the balance (especially Asian Players) which of course has them eating negative rounds even faster. I don't know how to quantify that because it's so unpredictable but it has very high value.
Last edited:
SandBaggins
Active Member
FLASH1296 said:
Very nice! I love this forum! Yet another angle to increase EV.
Thanks BP.
AussiePlayer
Well-Known Member
x2. Some people would do well to understand more about just who is answering their questions. There are not many people who can display that avatar!!!