Anyone have this happen to them?
- Thread starter Thunder
- Start date
My wife and I were playing at a table when a new player sat down and put money out for chips. The dealer miscounted the money and started to give the new player too many chips, at which time my wife pointed out the error. The dealer made the correction and said thank you, the new player didn't say anything, and I told my wife later if she ever did that to someone again I would pretend I didn't know her!
EasyRhino
Well-Known Member
Yeah, general rule of thumb is you don't point out errors in favor of other players. Feel free to be honest about mistakes in your favor all you want.
The other day I thought I saw a players' winning hand declared a push on accident. But I was backcounting pretty far away, and it didn't seem right to leap up to the table to challenge it.
The other day I thought I saw a players' winning hand declared a push on accident. But I was backcounting pretty far away, and it didn't seem right to leap up to the table to challenge it.
pc
I remember this pit critter one night. Crowded table and he notices the dealer paying my losing hand of 18 because she thought it was a winner. I didn't notice but the pit critter was correct. What struck me as funny was that the pit critter noticed that one hand as he was in motion walking by but never noticed me and one or two other players counting cards and our 1-10 spreads! Go figure.
I remember this pit critter one night. Crowded table and he notices the dealer paying my losing hand of 18 because she thought it was a winner. I didn't notice but the pit critter was correct. What struck me as funny was that the pit critter noticed that one hand as he was in motion walking by but never noticed me and one or two other players counting cards and our 1-10 spreads! Go figure.
ihate17
Well-Known Member
Pit critters
Very often the pit is concerned with new or poor dealers, making out rating slips, talking over last nights game with a buddy in the pit, making time with a cocktail waitress, ordering fills, ordering markers and plain just being bored. This leaves no time for looking for counters that do not do anything special to get his attention.
ihate17
Very often the pit is concerned with new or poor dealers, making out rating slips, talking over last nights game with a buddy in the pit, making time with a cocktail waitress, ordering fills, ordering markers and plain just being bored. This leaves no time for looking for counters that do not do anything special to get his attention.
ihate17
EasyRhino
Well-Known Member
You know, just recently, me and a single civilian were at a table that was formerly empty. We started ribbing back and forth with the dealer, and we asked if we were inconveniencing him. He said yes, and then we asked him if he just liked standing there staring into space. When he responded in the affirmative, we were then able to use the phrase "Sorry to take your time, I know you've got a whole lot of nothing to get back to" in conversation. It was great.
Automatic Monkey
Banned
That's my observation too. PC's are pretty much out of the counter-catching business, except for a few real old-time places.
ihate17
Well-Known Member
One more thing about pits today
Many places use dual rates. Basically they are dealers who sometimes work as pits.
At many places they make less money as pits and hate those days, unless they are looking to move up the casino food chain.
They know as much about counting and blackjack play in general as the average dealer. Which means they know how to deal the game but not how to play the game.
Their main goal, working in the pit, is for their shift to pass quickly.
P.S. The dual rate hoping for promotion can be dangerous for inexperienced counters. This dual rate would really like to be able to do something while in the pit that would earn him brownie points.
ihate17
Many places use dual rates. Basically they are dealers who sometimes work as pits.
At many places they make less money as pits and hate those days, unless they are looking to move up the casino food chain.
They know as much about counting and blackjack play in general as the average dealer. Which means they know how to deal the game but not how to play the game.
Their main goal, working in the pit, is for their shift to pass quickly.
P.S. The dual rate hoping for promotion can be dangerous for inexperienced counters. This dual rate would really like to be able to do something while in the pit that would earn him brownie points.
ihate17
It's happened to me but what the heck it is what is supposed to have happened so I don't get that upset.
On the other hand I don't point out dealer mistakes in favor of the player -
so I guess I'm a cheater too.
A few months ago I saw a guy right next to me with "HATE" tattooed letters on his fingers actually past post and add a chip to the bottom of his stack after the hand that the dealer paid. I couldn't believe it. I didn't know what to do. I just left the table not wanting to be near that crap. Let somebody else throw him back to jail.
I have seen a lot of people bottom tapping stacks in Australia. For some reason the casinos here make it so your chips must be in on stick neatly lined up. So these clowns were basically betting a green with a red on the top, and sometimes a black with a red on the top. When they had the green with red on top, they would double down to two blacks and two reds. After I saw this I left the table immediately. I used to think the cameras saw everything, but the truth is they are usually so low detail they can't even see the card. Most casinos just BS when they say they are reviewing the tape, they aren't, they are just asking some boss somewhere what to do.
Also some dealers are so mind numbingly stupid its incrediable what you can get away with.
In Australia we are allowed to put out double down bets even when its not our turn, so say you are on the box that acts last, you can put out the chips even when the dealer is acting on the first box's hand (not sure if this is common rules). Anyway I saw people putting out the doulbe down bet early, but putting it out as if it were a back bet. THen when the dealer comes to act on their hand, they double both bets... 3:1 double down!
In Australia we are allowed to put out double down bets even when its not our turn, so say you are on the box that acts last, you can put out the chips even when the dealer is acting on the first box's hand (not sure if this is common rules). Anyway I saw people putting out the doulbe down bet early, but putting it out as if it were a back bet. THen when the dealer comes to act on their hand, they double both bets... 3:1 double down!
Mimosine
Well-Known Member
in the US people push double and split bets out whenever they feel like it.
they don't have to wait for the dealer's attention.
ihate17
Well-Known Member
You did the right thing
If you see a cheat on your table the best thing for you to do is leave that table immediately. Though you have done nothing wrong, you can never be sure if somehow you could be implicated as a partner of the cheat somehow, so why take that chance.
I had a situation a few years back where the situation and my history (known by at least some casinos) as a holecarder, might have landed me up in a Nevada prison.
I am sitting at a pitch game at second base and quickly it became very obvious to me that the dealer and the player at first base were cheats and partners. The dealer was both flashing his hole card and then as he picked the deck up for hits, flashing the next card to be dealt to first base. Played a couple of hands to be sure and it was so obvious to me that I felt it would be obvious to the casino if someone began watching, so I not only left the table but left the casino. The guy was not flashing to me on purpose but I could see it and I was sure he was flashing to first base on purpose. Hard case perhaps for the casino to prove but this is not the kind of holecarding that I do.
Thing about surviellance and the casino seeing pastposters and similar cheats. The eye is the most understaffed department in a casino. The cameras just run and record and perhaps one guy for every 20 or so cameras, so he is just watching the pretty blonde with the low cut top on table 12. Unless something else catches his attention (unlikely) or the pit calls upstairs to alert him (damm, he has to work now) the tape will just run and run and unless they come up with a reason later, like a big win, the tape will just be taped over and gone forever.
The review will happen later if someone asks for it. The dealer is taught to memorize the bets at the corners (1st and 3rd) to help prevent this kind of cheating as he moves from player to player. The dealer then is the first defense against pastposting and though he may not be sure, he should tell the pit that perhaps third base added to his bet and a call from the pit will get an instant review of the past hands plus someone watching the current hands. The pit might notice this if he is looking at the right time and take action plus have a review. If the pit sees it first, the dealer might have some remidial training.
ihate17
If you see a cheat on your table the best thing for you to do is leave that table immediately. Though you have done nothing wrong, you can never be sure if somehow you could be implicated as a partner of the cheat somehow, so why take that chance.
I had a situation a few years back where the situation and my history (known by at least some casinos) as a holecarder, might have landed me up in a Nevada prison.
I am sitting at a pitch game at second base and quickly it became very obvious to me that the dealer and the player at first base were cheats and partners. The dealer was both flashing his hole card and then as he picked the deck up for hits, flashing the next card to be dealt to first base. Played a couple of hands to be sure and it was so obvious to me that I felt it would be obvious to the casino if someone began watching, so I not only left the table but left the casino. The guy was not flashing to me on purpose but I could see it and I was sure he was flashing to first base on purpose. Hard case perhaps for the casino to prove but this is not the kind of holecarding that I do.
Thing about surviellance and the casino seeing pastposters and similar cheats. The eye is the most understaffed department in a casino. The cameras just run and record and perhaps one guy for every 20 or so cameras, so he is just watching the pretty blonde with the low cut top on table 12. Unless something else catches his attention (unlikely) or the pit calls upstairs to alert him (damm, he has to work now) the tape will just run and run and unless they come up with a reason later, like a big win, the tape will just be taped over and gone forever.
The review will happen later if someone asks for it. The dealer is taught to memorize the bets at the corners (1st and 3rd) to help prevent this kind of cheating as he moves from player to player. The dealer then is the first defense against pastposting and though he may not be sure, he should tell the pit that perhaps third base added to his bet and a call from the pit will get an instant review of the past hands plus someone watching the current hands. The pit might notice this if he is looking at the right time and take action plus have a review. If the pit sees it first, the dealer might have some remidial training.
ihate17
Sonny
Well-Known Member
Mimosine
Well-Known Member
now there's a tough question...
the house could look favorably on it or the house could question how you knew how to spot it in the first place.....
having any cheats in the game is bad for everyone, imho... what if the same dealer was cheating in favor of the house as well so that the till evened out?
side note: i don't however, consider holecarding without collusion cheating.
Sonny
Well-Known Member
Automatic Monkey
Banned
I'd think there'd be both advantages and disadvantages to snitching him out, but the disadvantages would outweigh the advantages.
The obvious disadvantage would be some retaliation from the cheat and/or his colleagues. He might recognize you as an AP and return the favor in the backroom. It will also make you more recognizable to security, get your name in reports, and all that undesirable stuff.
A less obvious disadvantage is that there is a mindset out there where informants lose respect even from the people they help. Criminals hate informants, but the police don't respect them very much either. If game protection is looking for an AP to make an example of they will pick one they don't like very much, and their prior contact with you could make you stand out.
I've played alongside a cheater who was also counting and matching my spread and this made it very awkward. Afterward I was talking to a PC and I outright told her "I wasn't playing with that guy and I've never seen him before in my life." She told me "Yes, we know that" and I felt a lot better. If I see a cheat again, damn sight better he get up and leave than I get up and leave an advantage situation, so I'll probably just give him an ominous "Don't do it. Not with me here." which should give him the message that he is exposing another player to undesired scrutiny and he isn't happy about it.
blackchipjim
Well-Known Member
**** happens.
I've had similiar occurences both for the house and against. I had a dealer recently screw up time and time again only to bring it to her attention. The others players were amiss at my honesty and asked me why I bothered to correct her time and time again. I explained to the others that the camereas don't miss too much and eventually either the dealer or myself or both could get in trouble. I felt after awhile even the pit boss was pretty cool with me for being honest. After that I was pretty free to use big spreads with no heat what so ever. I still think honesty is still the best policy.
blackchipjim
I've had similiar occurences both for the house and against. I had a dealer recently screw up time and time again only to bring it to her attention. The others players were amiss at my honesty and asked me why I bothered to correct her time and time again. I explained to the others that the camereas don't miss too much and eventually either the dealer or myself or both could get in trouble. I felt after awhile even the pit boss was pretty cool with me for being honest. After that I was pretty free to use big spreads with no heat what so ever. I still think honesty is still the best policy.
blackchipjim