Late Surrender
- Thread starter Preston
- Start date
zengrifter
Banned
20% more, all else being equal. Learn ALL the surrender#s. zg
Play multiple hands, Put the cash out there when you got the advantage. You will burn out far before they do.
I think you should look at your money management if you think that you may go bust.
This table rule is to our advantage but, I would think they hit soft17, if not and the pen is there. Tear it up while the getting is good.
Remember to use the LS rule, its hard to remember sometimes when you looking at that ugly stiff. While training a good friend of mine, she told me this was one of the hardest things for her to get down.
Last edited:
Brock Windsor
Well-Known Member
Fab four, ESPECIALLY 14vs10. It is the second most valuable index play a counter can make after insurance.
Not necessarily. I was just curious how much more I could bet without getting into overbetting.
It's a nice rule to have, and will probably save my ass in the long run. Glad I found this game.
ihate17
Well-Known Member
why not spread
Late surrender is a good rule, and most of its benifits to a counter, come in high counts when you have a big bet out there. If you do not spread a lot in 6 and 8 deck shoe games, you will not get the full benifit of late surrender and might not have much of an edge on the game anyway.
Unless I missed it, we do not know the other rules or the pen on this game. Even with surrender it might not be a very good game. So the idea of burning it out might be premature.
Though I play at a little higher level and do worry about burning a game out for myself, I know counters who play some of the 6 deck shoes in Vegas which are S-17, DA, DAS, split 4, RSA, and LS, house edge .26%. They spread $25-$250 and sometimes more and have been playing the same casinos on visits for years.
ihate17
Late surrender is a good rule, and most of its benifits to a counter, come in high counts when you have a big bet out there. If you do not spread a lot in 6 and 8 deck shoe games, you will not get the full benifit of late surrender and might not have much of an edge on the game anyway.
Unless I missed it, we do not know the other rules or the pen on this game. Even with surrender it might not be a very good game. So the idea of burning it out might be premature.
Though I play at a little higher level and do worry about burning a game out for myself, I know counters who play some of the 6 deck shoes in Vegas which are S-17, DA, DAS, split 4, RSA, and LS, house edge .26%. They spread $25-$250 and sometimes more and have been playing the same casinos on visits for years.
ihate17
SilentBob420BMFJ
Banned
surrender 14 vs 10 is the 2nd most valuable deviation besides insurance when they offer LS? what count do you do that at? 14 vs 10 isnt even on the ill 18, but im guessing thats assuming no surrender
80% penetration from certain dealers. There are both 6 and 8 deck shoes so I have to watch for that when wonging.
I passed up the shoe games last night to play a crappy double deck game. The rules on this were:
S17
50% penetration
Double 10 and 11 only
No Surrender
no RSA
no DAS
Why would I play a game this crappy?
It proved to be one of the easiest holecarding opportunities I've ever seen. It was a new dealer who practically shoved the card under at a 45 degree angle. All I had to do was tilt my head slightly.
I had one of the biggest wins ever.
But they ended up shutting the game down after about an hour and a half :-(.
Maybe splitting 10's against a K gave it away. So I went and blew some money on slots and craps in case surveillance was watching.
If you are playing the major properties on the strip you can spread a hell of a lot more than $25-$250 with no problem. Unless you are a buffoon its is very hard at that betting level to get backed off in those joints while counting. I know many, myself included who are barred from such places and still play with bigger spreads and no problems.
ihate17
Well-Known Member
Agree
Yes, but we seem to have new players here who are limiting their growth because they have extreme paranoia about the casinos. The key (for the umteenth time) is you need to know something about your opponent.
Moo or perhaps it was someone else on the thread, was worried about burning the game out by spreading and using surrender. My post was in reply to his.
ihate17
Yes, but we seem to have new players here who are limiting their growth because they have extreme paranoia about the casinos. The key (for the umteenth time) is you need to know something about your opponent.
Moo or perhaps it was someone else on the thread, was worried about burning the game out by spreading and using surrender. My post was in reply to his.
ihate17
Sonny
Well-Known Member
The Ill18 and Fab 4 are covered in Blackjack Attack. It tells you when to use them and how much each one is worth.
-Sonny-
SilentBob420BMFJ
Banned
guess what? blackjack attack is on the way! i got it on interlibrary loan.. still didnt answer my question tho.. i dont need a book to tell me that 14 vs 10 is NOT one of the best deviations possible, as i already know insurance, 16 vs 10, 15 vs 10, 16 vs 9, and the rest of the ill 18 are worth more, and if not, then the ill 18 arent the most important, thus wtf..
sagefr0g
Well-Known Member
i forget it might be one of the fab four..... but anyway for the hi/lo count you can use late surrender 14v10 at tc>=3
Automatic Monkey
Banned
That one's a winner. Also learn 14 vs. 9 and A, 16 vs. 8 and 88 vs. 10.
Exactly - the I18 assumes no surrender. Do it at +3 when LS offered.
And it is the second most valuable play.
Just got back from a nice trip. A little better than you guys making your 12k back. Or at least most of that BR you all lost.
If Bojack could let these guys really know how to play, or even Ken Smith.
I know this site gets a lot of hits but its really a shame that there is so much bs . During our play in the last few days, I was thinking about all of the posts I have read and how meaningless they were. I'm not trying to say that people here are whatever.. I'm just trying to convey that , you should play absolutely perfectly for any theory to be...real.
What am I trying to say really is that, get out there loose your ass, then think about how yo can be better.
Or Im just to happy after a big win and to drunk. Cheers.
D.M
Automatic Monkey
Banned
In what counting system would you recommend hitting and not surrendering 14 vs. 10 at TC=+3?