Counter company?

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Dopple

Well-Known Member
I wonder when I go in an establishment how many other counters there are in the house? I hear only one in 100 people that try counting are able to be successful at it. I understand if another person is counting at the table you should leave right away. I suppose you could tell that before hand by Wonging a couple decks before taking a seat.
 
It all depends on where you are. In AC or CT, I meet another counter once a year, max. But on every trip I've made to LV I've met one, and I've been there less than half dozen times. Never met one in Reno, but I've been to Biloxi twice and seen a counter once.

What is really scary is meeting an advanced AP, using sequencing or tracking techniques. You don't want to mess this up for him, but you're curious to know exactly what he's doing. The worst is meeting a cheat- run like hell!
 
Dopple said:
I hear only one in 100 people that try counting are able to be successful at it.
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Don't forget that only 1 in 100 people know perfect basic strategy.

I would think you'd bump into more backcounters in AC.

What's still amusing to me is that I've only bumped into counters at one local place, but never any of the other local places. I don't know what's up with the guys around here.
 
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counter tells

I usually can tell if a person is counting after a little while. Some are obvious some not so obvious. I've heard people use terms or little sayings that have been said in both forums and books and just glance at the person when it's said. It is kinda funny because some people will look at me funny if I make a index play with a larger bet out and make it time after time. I know of three gentlemen at the place I frequent that I know are counters and I stay away from the tables they play at so as not to draw heat. Just remember they are out there. blackchipjim
 
EasyRhino said:
Don't forget that only 1 in 100 people know perfect basic strategy.

I would think you'd bump into more backcounters in AC.

What's still amusing to me is that I've only bumped into counters at one local place, but never any of the other local places. I don't know what's up with the guys around here.
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i ran into one counter on multiple occasions at a former local joint.
i think it was EasyRhino, though he'll never admit it! it must be him, because he was spreading from 2 hands $10 to 2 hands of $150ish. only ER would try to get away with that!
 
Perfect B/S and Counting

To the best of my judgement, I'd estimate that perhaps one player out of a couple hundred really plays perfect Basic Strategy. Many more times, it may initially seem that a certain player knows all his basic, but then along comes 12 vs. 3, or A/7 vs. 9, or A/3 vs. 3, or 9/9 vs. 8 and he misplays it/them.

As for counters, out of probably several thousand table mates over the years, I have noticed maybe 6 or 8 counters at my table, although there conceivably could've been some I didn't notice. After all, I'd like to believe they didn't notice me.
 
Fred, seriously, only 6 or 8? Becuase I've bumped into 4 confirmed (one guy twice), and 2 probables, and I haven't really been playing that long! These were all red-chip tables, though.

Mimosine said:
it must be him, because he was spreading from 2 hands $10 to 2 hands of $150ish. only ER would try to get away with that!
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Naw, I would have been doing one hand of $10 to two of $150. There was another person there at the table and I wanted him to eat the cards in a negative count.

... also, I'm not welcome to play at that joint anymore. :o
 
I've found it really is rare to bump into other counters although it does occasionally happen. One time at this small casino with good pen I jump into a good count and so did this other guy. The count went higher I put out table max and so did the other guy then when I insured he also insured. After the shoe ended when I got up, he also got up and says to me do you think we were that obvious and I said probably then he replied do you know there is four counters here today and I said actually there are five. There was five of us counters all swimming around the tables like sharks waiting to pounce on good counts. This place only has 10 tables, needless to say I didn't stick around much longer.
 
EasyRhino said:
Fred, seriously, only 6 or 8? Becuase I've bumped into 4 confirmed (one guy twice), and 2 probables, and I haven't really been playing that long! These were all red-chip tables, though.
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I'd say when it comes down to it, that's about all. There have been many more times though, when something like the following has happened.

Maybe I'm playing heads up and the count rises into solid multi-unit territory. A new player appears out of nowhere looking anxious to play and says, "Mind if I join you?" I ask him to wait 'till I lose a hand, and he obliges. Soon, he enters and bets many times the table minimum. Maybe we both win a few, and now he's betting crazy high -- and the count warrants it! Next, the dealer has an Ace up, and he Insures his hand -- dealer's got blackjack. Right after that, he's dealt 16 against a 10, and stands with it. The earmarks are there. He loses with the 16 to a pat 20. By now the count has dropped way down and he goes "all in" with a double-up or triple-up bet. He's dealt 15 against an 8 and disgustedly stands again. So much for the earmarks.

There have been a plethora of those for every real AP I've encountered.
 
I've ran into one. There was another where the whole table blamed him later for screwing everything up by playing two hands. He was either counting or very lucky, he won a lot of money playing black and purple. I'm not sure exactly how much because I jumped from the full $25 table to an empty $15 DD next to it so I could spread 1-8. Funny thing was the $25 table cleared out soon and I went back over to it and did most of my damage there. No heat at all at that place.
 
Renzey said:
I'd say when it comes down to it, that's about all. There have been many more times though, when something like the following has happened.

Maybe I'm playing heads up and the count rises into solid multi-unit territory. A new player appears out of nowhere looking anxious to play and says, "Mind if I join you?" I ask him to wait 'till I lose a hand, and he obliges. Soon, he enters and bets many times the table minimum. Maybe we both win a few, and now he's betting crazy high -- and the count warrants it! Next, the dealer has an Ace up, and he Insures his hand -- dealer's got blackjack. Right after that, he's dealt 16 against a 10, and stands with it. The earmarks are there. He loses with the 16 to a pat 20. By now the count has dropped way down and he goes "all in" with a double-up or triple-up bet. He's dealt 15 against an 8 and disgustedly stands again. So much for the earmarks.

There have been a plethora of those for every real AP I've encountered.
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I love that guy. He helps confuse the house as to the real counters, at least in the short-term.
 
The last time I truly saw an AP (I believe) was actually an Asian chick at Foxwoods. We were both doing spreads and playing through. Occasionally we'd have a hand where the dealer was showing a 4 5 or 6 and I'd have 13 and she'd has 12 and we'd look at each other as to who would hit..

Also confirming other things like insurance bets.

It was actually kind of fun.

Since then I've had the "omg a bunch of small cards came out player" but no actual AP's.
 
the places that i've played i've seen loads of players that employ nearly flawless basic strategy. seen pretty many counters as well. how good of counters it's hard to say manly because it's hard to tell what their unit and spread are during the short stretches of play that i've observed them.
 
counter holiday

I went to the casino a few days ago and paid a little more attention to the whole days sessions than i normally do. I picked off three counters two wongers and one play all guy. The wongers were easy but in my oppinion were either a tad early or used a different count to enter.Play all was easy to spot because he was using no camo betting which caused me to scale back and eventually leave that table. These guys were in addition to the regulars that I had pegged for counters, which leads me to realize why I hear the dealers bring up counting cards more now than ever before. blackchipjim:eek:
 
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