Pressure to tip
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Do that often enough and you might as well wear a neon sign saying "COUNTER". If they ever get suspicious of you,examing a tape will bury you.
moo321
Well-Known Member
I don't feel bad tipping less at a buffet than at a sit-down place. Usually buffet servers carry twice as many tables, so if you tip less, they'll still be fine.
moo321
Well-Known Member
If someone examines a tape, they'll see you jumping your bets with the count, too.
checkmaterob
Member
I thought most of the people on this site were AP players? The only time tipping becomes +EV is when you have to so you can continue playing, i.e. keep a dealer quiet, a little further penetration, to keep cover, etc.
I think it's safe to say few people would whip it out and start masturbating on the bus; there is a time and place for everything. If you decide to go out for a nice dinner, then yes, you would tip. But at the blackjack tables, you are, supposed to be, there to make money... You are after all an AP player?
I might come off like a prick right now, but at least I have valid points. The dealers might rely primarily on tips for their income, but at least they have a job? Why not save all the chips you were going to toke with and donate that money to charity instead? That way your hard earned money goes to people who really needs it, and you also benefit with a tax break..
I think it's safe to say few people would whip it out and start masturbating on the bus; there is a time and place for everything. If you decide to go out for a nice dinner, then yes, you would tip. But at the blackjack tables, you are, supposed to be, there to make money... You are after all an AP player?
I might come off like a prick right now, but at least I have valid points. The dealers might rely primarily on tips for their income, but at least they have a job? Why not save all the chips you were going to toke with and donate that money to charity instead? That way your hard earned money goes to people who really needs it, and you also benefit with a tax break..
Don't tip the dealers and they WILL be the people who really need it. And yes, you're coming off like a prick.
Are you saying that card counting is such a weak system that it can't sustain a little gratuity? If so, you would do better off delivering pizzas. Besides, if you have to be a d!ck in order to make some money, is being an AP even worth it?
Ive tipped bottles of booze.. That were comped.. Fugg, tipping.
Like you, I don't see what's wrong with tipping at a BJ table. If you're worried about win rate or some such just add it back in to figure out what you're winning.
So, like maybe you spend $50 driving back and forth, or $100's for a plane ticket, maybe $100's on a room, so you can play some BJ but never tipping a dollar at a table as a matter of AP strategy somehow makes you a more brilliant/better AP?
Probably all just a matter of degree anyway I'd guess. But I'd feel weird not tipping at all.
ihate17
Well-Known Member
If you play at higher stakes
I also will toke, not that much (my opinion) but I toke. I do it because I have had family members who dealt in the past, I do it because I know a pleasant dealer depends upon it for income, I do it because I want too.
The problem for the red chip player is in the math. The win rate is generally so low that you must give a significant amount of your profit away if you toke, so experts will state, do not toke. There are also those dealers that consider a $1 toke an insult. Here I will side with those experts because any dealer who is insulted by the size of a toke from a red chip player deserves no tokes. It is one thing to toke a $1 on a $1,000 bet (that is an insult) it is a completely different thing to toke a $1 on a $10 bet (that is overly generous)
I play with a higher minimum bet and at that rate, besides my other reasons for toking, not standing out for not toking is part of the game. Losing, you do not need to toke a cent, you might but no one really expects a guy having a tough time at any stake table to toke. Winning, especially winning pretty big at a higher stake table and not toking can get you some extra attention. You do not need to toke often or big, just something and especially when the pit is glancing toward your table after seeing you get a big payout on a hand.
I do reccommend never toking a discourtious dealer under any circumstances but especially in one of the casinos where dealers keep their own tokes.
ihate17
I also will toke, not that much (my opinion) but I toke. I do it because I have had family members who dealt in the past, I do it because I know a pleasant dealer depends upon it for income, I do it because I want too.
The problem for the red chip player is in the math. The win rate is generally so low that you must give a significant amount of your profit away if you toke, so experts will state, do not toke. There are also those dealers that consider a $1 toke an insult. Here I will side with those experts because any dealer who is insulted by the size of a toke from a red chip player deserves no tokes. It is one thing to toke a $1 on a $1,000 bet (that is an insult) it is a completely different thing to toke a $1 on a $10 bet (that is overly generous)
I play with a higher minimum bet and at that rate, besides my other reasons for toking, not standing out for not toking is part of the game. Losing, you do not need to toke a cent, you might but no one really expects a guy having a tough time at any stake table to toke. Winning, especially winning pretty big at a higher stake table and not toking can get you some extra attention. You do not need to toke often or big, just something and especially when the pit is glancing toward your table after seeing you get a big payout on a hand.
I do reccommend never toking a discourtious dealer under any circumstances but especially in one of the casinos where dealers keep their own tokes.
ihate17
Thing with red chip play is that most red-chippers are realistic and know that they aren't playing to win a ton of money,but rather because they enjoy the game.A $5-10 player that goes to Vegas for the week isn't there to burn down the house. He's there for entertainment. So if he gives away 50% of his expected $6 an hour win rate(number pulled out of nowhere),so what.If he plays for twenty hours and makes sixty dollars instead of one hundred and twenty,whats the effect on his bottom line,in reality.In either case,he'd make much more delivering pizzas.
If you are a green chipper or better and don't want to toss the dealer a couple of dollars(not green chips),then you are just cheap.
If you are a green chipper or better and don't want to toss the dealer a couple of dollars(not green chips),then you are just cheap.
blackchipjim
Well-Known Member
tip for tat
I found that tipping a dealer is actually better than not in alot of situations. If I'm winning and toking the dealer and the pit love me and want me to continue. Any seasoned counter may use toking as cover at any level and it does work. I not only toke dealers but waiteresses with the drinks. If I'm losing I don't stay at the table long and it's understandable to both the dealers and pit. I frequent the same casino and the people know me so I don't piss in my own backyard. blackchipjim
I found that tipping a dealer is actually better than not in alot of situations. If I'm winning and toking the dealer and the pit love me and want me to continue. Any seasoned counter may use toking as cover at any level and it does work. I not only toke dealers but waiteresses with the drinks. If I'm losing I don't stay at the table long and it's understandable to both the dealers and pit. I frequent the same casino and the people know me so I don't piss in my own backyard. blackchipjim
Unless you can think of an actual reason that tipping will make you more money than not tipping you shouldn't tip. All it does is willingly increase the house's advantage. If you really want to give money away a better strategy would be to take the money you would have tipped with and give it to charity, at least then the government won't tax your generosity.
moo321
Well-Known Member
From a mathematical perspective, you're right. From an ethical perspective, it seems a little sleezy not to tip a little.
blackchipjim
Well-Known Member
tipping me?
I have tipped and recieved better pen. from some dealers. Don't think for a second that a dealer that can by choice give you better pen or really cut your pen down will stay the same with a rotten @##$$ at the table. If want to hit and run great, but don't be surprised if the next time if the next time you show up at the dealers table you get the tap. blackchipjim
I have tipped and recieved better pen. from some dealers. Don't think for a second that a dealer that can by choice give you better pen or really cut your pen down will stay the same with a rotten @##$$ at the table. If want to hit and run great, but don't be surprised if the next time if the next time you show up at the dealers table you get the tap. blackchipjim
Some dealers will give you better pen if you tip or not cut down your pen, but the real question is would you make more money not tipping? Does the value of the increased pen overcome the tips to those dealers and the tips to the ones that don't increase the pen? If tipping has an expected value greater than its physical amount then by all means tip, it's a win win situation.
EasyRhino
Well-Known Member
Nope, it decreases your advantage. It increases the dealer's advantage, and it has no particular effect on the house.
I wouldn't even say it's necessary to give away half your winnings. If your win-rate is $6 an hour, then drop a white chip every hour or so. That's not a lot but it is something and something is always better than nothing.
blackchipjim
Well-Known Member
tips for pen
I would care to disagree on the basis of your style of play. If you wong in or out who cares what you do about tipping. You don't stay long enough to notice any change anyway. If you are wonging out it may make a difference in a 6 or 8 deck game. Tipping the dealer and changing the pen from 4.5/6 to 5/6 or 6.5/to 7/8 makes a good difference to me and my game. If the dealer is good to me I'm good to the dealer which is good to my bottom line. I had a dealer chase a player away so I could play heads up with her for three shoes and made a nice tidy sum and i toked her for the next time I sit down at her table. blackchipjim
I would care to disagree on the basis of your style of play. If you wong in or out who cares what you do about tipping. You don't stay long enough to notice any change anyway. If you are wonging out it may make a difference in a 6 or 8 deck game. Tipping the dealer and changing the pen from 4.5/6 to 5/6 or 6.5/to 7/8 makes a good difference to me and my game. If the dealer is good to me I'm good to the dealer which is good to my bottom line. I had a dealer chase a player away so I could play heads up with her for three shoes and made a nice tidy sum and i toked her for the next time I sit down at her table. blackchipjim
Tipping is discretionary right? Give what you want to give. Nothing more, nothing less. Gratuities depend on how gratuitous you're feeling on that day.
when I come to the US I do tip. sometimes a minimal amount (if I've had bad service), sometimes over the top for great service (I gave a buffet drinks server $20 one day because he was simply superb - he was wrapped). I try to hit the average 10-15% expected.
I tip blackjack dealers but ONLY when I'm winning, and I tip small amounts. I'm there to take their money, not give it to them. Personal choice. But if a blackjack dealer is rude, surly, or laughing every time I lose, then forget it.
when I come to the US I do tip. sometimes a minimal amount (if I've had bad service), sometimes over the top for great service (I gave a buffet drinks server $20 one day because he was simply superb - he was wrapped). I try to hit the average 10-15% expected.
I tip blackjack dealers but ONLY when I'm winning, and I tip small amounts. I'm there to take their money, not give it to them. Personal choice. But if a blackjack dealer is rude, surly, or laughing every time I lose, then forget it.