You can watch the movie 21 on line for free

GentleManSteve said:
It links to other sites. I just links to sites that has it. So I guess that we have to ask another question. LOL

Is it illegal to link to a site that has somehting that is being illegally shown on it?

Is Google in the wrong if you search for a movie and you come up on a link that has it showing illegally?

LOL all the possibilities
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It is illegal to run a site that specifically links to illegal downloads. This is "conspiracy to violate copyright law." This is what PirateBay does and why it has been charged. It is not illegal to operate a general purpose search engine. If you walk into Hertz, rent a car and use the car in a bank robbery, Hertz is not at fault. If you walk into Hertz and say "I need a fast car to rob a bank" and they rent you a car, they are guilty of aiding and abetting a crime. If a car rental agency specializes in renting cars to bank robbers, it is a criminal organization.
 
QFIT said:
These sites are being shut down all the time. It just takes awhile. PirateBay is next. They were charged with conspiracy to break copyright law in January.
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Arrrgh, never!! We swedes are unbreakable.

Seriusly thou, i dont think piratebay will be shut down. They might make it illegal to download from them but they cant stop the site. What are they going to all thoose how download, put us in jail? The streets would be empty here since every sixth swede is activly filesharing.

Im not saying its right but the laws are unpractical.


QFIT said:
It is illegal to run a site that specifically links to illegal downloads. This is "conspiracy to violate copyright law." This is what PirateBay does and why it has been charged.
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I doubt this is the case according to swedish laws and they DO have legal stuff aswell.
 
Allecc said:
Arrrgh, never!! We swedes are unbreakable.

Seriusly thou, i dont think piratebay will be shut down. They might make it illegal to download from them but they cant stop the site. What are they going to all thoose how download, put us in jail? The streets would be empty here since every sixth swede is activly filesharing.

Im not saying its right but the laws are unpractical.




I doubt this is the case according to swedish laws and they DO have legal stuff aswell.
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The Swedish authorities have recently shut down sites, convicted site owners and expanded their efforts against these scum. Frankly, I think that the owners of PirateBay should have the locks removed from their doors so that anyone can walk in at any time and steal whatever they want from them. Maybe then they will understand the damage that they cause.
 
QFIT said:
It is illegal to run a site that specifically links to illegal downloads. This is "conspiracy to violate copyright law." This is what PirateBay does and why it has been charged. It is not illegal to operate a general purpose search engine. If you walk into Hertz, rent a car and use the car in a bank robbery, Hertz is not at fault. If you walk into Hertz and say "I need a fast car to rob a bank" and they rent you a car, they are guilty of aiding and abetting a crime. If a car rental agency specializes in renting cars to bank robbers, it is a criminal organization.
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conspiracy to violate copyright law? Last time I heard that conspiracy was planning to break a law. So either you conspire to commit a crime or work out away to commit a crime.

There was once a guy who walked into a Gun shop and bought a Gun and told the guy selling the Gun he was going to kill somebody. They Gun shop salesman sold it to him. The salesman was ask about if the guy bought the Gun and he said yes and that he told them what the guy said about killing somebody. No charges was brought on him. He wasn't charged with aiding and abetting so you need to redo that part of your comparing.

I think that would be the same as renting a car.
 
GentleManSteve said:
conspiracy to violate copyright law? Last time I heard that conspiracy was planning to break a law. So either you conspire to commit a crime or work out away to commit a crime.

There was once a guy who walked into a Gun shop and bought a Gun and told the guy selling the Gun he was going to kill somebody. They Gun shop salesman sold it to him. The salesman was ask about if the guy bought the Gun and he said yes and that he told them what the guy said about killing somebody. No charges was brought on him. He wasn't charged with aiding and abetting so you need to redo that part of your comparing.

I think that would be the same as renting a car.
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If this is true, the gun shop owner should have been put in prison for life. This is a clear violation of law.

This is from FindLaw:

"A criminal charge of aiding and abetting or accessory can usually be brought against anyone who helps in the commission of a crime, though legal distinctions vary by state. A person charged with aiding and abetting or accessory is usually not present when the crime itself is committed, but he or she has knowledge of the crime before or after the fact, and may assist in its commission through advice, actions, or financial support. Depending on the degree of involvement, the offender's participation in the crime may rise to the level of conspiracy."

Conspiracy involves enabling a crime. You can be charged with conspiracy even if the crime never takes place.

In any case, argue with the Swedish gov't, not me. They charged the four owners of PirateBay with conspiracy. I'm sure they know Swedish law better than we.
 
QFIT said:
If this is true, the gun shop owner should have been put in prison for life. This is a clear violation of law.

This is from FindLaw:

"A criminal charge of aiding and abetting or accessory can usually be brought against anyone who helps in the commission of a crime, though legal distinctions vary by state. A person charged with aiding and abetting or accessory is usually not present when the crime itself is committed, but he or she has knowledge of the crime before or after the fact, and may assist in its commission through advice, actions, or financial support. Depending on the degree of involvement, the offender's participation in the crime may rise to the level of conspiracy."

Conspiracy involves enabling a crime. You can be charged with conspiracy even if the crime never takes place.

In any case, argue with the Swedish gov't, not me. They charged the four owners of PirateBay with conspiracy. I'm sure they know Swedish law better than we.
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Yes I know charges can take place before the crime has taken place. That is why I said either planning on a crime or conspiring to commit a crime.

It is a true story about the Gun shop salesman. He said he had people say that all the time. He couldn't tell if the guy was joking or serious because it is something he heard all the time.

Not sure about any laws. Just know it is very seldom that the movie industry sues for piracy. There was an actor on David Letterman that said that the people was there with their cameras filming while they was making the movie. David ask if they chase them away. He said no it wasn't much they could do then. He "the actor said" The movie industry doesn't care too much about it because piracy isn't something they can stop very easily.
 
GentleManSteve said:
Not sure about any laws. Just know it is very seldom that the movie industry sues for piracy. There was an actor on David Letterman that said that the people was there with their cameras filming while they was making the movie. David ask if they chase them away. He said no it wasn't much they could do then. He "the actor said" The movie industry doesn't care too much about it because piracy isn't something they can stop very easily.
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The actor is dead wrong. The industry is extremely active in the courts. Look at the site you mentioned. It states "I wish to notice that movie files have a very short lifetime (from hour to day) before they will be deleted." That is because the industry constantly watches for pirate copies and immediately files DMCA complaints when they pop up. They are constantly fighting for their rights. It is a matter of survival. The software industry alone loses tens of billions a year due to criminals. It increases the costs to all honest people, just as insurance fraud raises auto insurance rates.

As for someone filming while they make the movies -- this makes no sense. Movies and tv shows are made in my neighborhood all the time. Filming is not done in sequence. No way you could piece together anything resembling the movie even if you could find every scene. And there are multiple film units filming at the same time in major pictures. And obviously you won't capture any special effects or get any of the sound correct.
 
QFIT said:
The actor is dead wrong. The industry is extremely active in the courts. Look at the site you mentioned. It states "I wish to notice that movie files have a very short lifetime (from hour to day) before they will be deleted." That is because the industry constantly watches for pirate copies and immediately files DMCA complaints when they pop up. They are constantly fighting for their rights. It is a matter of survival. The software industry alone loses tens of billions a year due to criminals. It increases the costs to all honest people, just as insurance fraud raises auto insurance rates.

As for someone filming while they make the movies -- this makes no sense. Movies and tv shows are made in my neighborhood all the time. Filming is not done in sequence. No way you could piece together anything resembling the movie even if you could find every scene. And there are multiple film units filming at the same time in major pictures. And obviously you won't capture any special effects or get any of the sound correct.
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The film was being made over seas. Do not know it that has anything to do with it or not.

I know some people go to the Theaters and film the movie while it is playing. I bought a movie once from a Flea Market and my nephew said it was a piracy film cause the Movie I bought was still in the theaters. I watched the movie and it was too good of Quality to be a fake. I told him some times they put it out on and they movie still be in the Theater. But he didn't believe what I said. But they do sometimes let it be still in the theaters while they put it out in stores. Not very often but sometimes that is how it works.
 
QFIT said:
Yesterday brought yet another conviction for a piracy site. See http://www.computerworld.com/action/article.do?command=viewArticleBasic&articleId=9089838&source=NLT_AM&nlid=1 (Archive copy)
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You are talking about piracy sites. Some people do not have sites. They have the DVDs, VCR, and have other media ways of doing it.

That is the most stupid ways of doing piracy and most know they shut them down in some off the wall plea deal so they just go on the Net and change their name and back to the drawing board doing the sane thing over again. If the are smart and I am sure they are they make their Company an Enterprise so no charges can come diractly to them it goes against the Enterprise. That is what they do Probably. I know I would make it a Enterprise so people could not sue me for what the Enterprise's Do.
 
GentleManSteve said:
You are talking about piracy sites. Some people do not have sites. They have the DVDs, VCR, and have other media ways of doing it.

That is the most stupid ways of doing piracy and most know they shut them down in some off the wall plea deal so they just go on the Net and change their name and back to the drawing board doing the sane thing over again. If the are smart and I am sure they are they make their Company an Enterprise so no charges can come diractly to them it goes against the Enterprise. That is what they do Probably. I know I would make it a Enterprise so people could not sue me for what the Enterprise's Do.
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Sorry, but that's ridiculous. Charges go directly against the owners. Incorporation in no way protects you from criminal liability. Otherwise you could incorporate and kill someone. And if someone takes a deal and then goes right back to doing the same thing, the deal is off and they go to prison. That's what parole and probation are all about. Paroles and probations are revoked if you continue committing crimes.

And of course I am talking about piracy sites. That's the subject of the thread.:)
 
QFIT said:
Sorry, but that's ridiculous. Charges go directly against the owners. Incorporation in no way protects you from criminal liability. Otherwise you could incorporate and kill someone. And if someone takes a deal and then goes right back to doing the same thing, the deal is off and they go to prison. That's what parole and probation are all about. Paroles and probations are revoked if you continue committing crimes.

And of course I am talking about piracy sites. That's the subject of the thread.:)
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Yes but your argument is what is ridiculous, When the hell is killing somebody the acts of an Enterprise. It has to be the thing the Interprises do; not some off the wall scheme to kill somebody.

I think you need to look up Enterprises and how they can be sued before coming up with a ridiculous argument like killing somebody.
 
GentleManSteve said:
Not sure about any laws. Just know it is very seldom that the movie industry sues for piracy.
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I would have to disagree with you there. I work in the film industry and I’ve had several co-workers lose their jobs and have charges filed against them because of piracy issues (as well as violating NDAs). It happens a lot more than you think because most of the people are just guys who make copies at home/work and sell DVDs on the street. It can be a federal crime complete with FBI investigations but you’ll never hear about it because it was just some guy in his basement. Trust me, I’ve seen plenty of guys get busted for piracy because the industry takes it very seriously.

GentleManSteve said:
Yes but your argument is what is ridiculous, When the hell is killing somebody the acts of an Enterprise. It has to be the thing the Interprises do; not some off the wall scheme to kill somebody.
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Is it not ridiculous to set up an enterprise for the purpose of illegally pirating movies?

-Sonny-
 
GentleManSteve said:
Yes but your argument is what is ridiculous, When the hell is killing somebody the acts of an Enterprise. It has to be the thing the Interprises do; not some off the wall scheme to kill somebody.

I think you need to look up Enterprises and how they can be sued before coming up with a ridiculous argument like killing somebody.
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There is nothing ridiculous about it. If you set up a corporation for the purposes of committing a crime, you are committing the crime. Doesn't matter what the crime is. Incorporation can protect you from business debts by declaring bankruptcy in some (not all) cases. It cannot protect you in any way from criminal liability. Nor can it protect you from civil liability associated with wrong-doing.
 
QFIT said:
There is nothing ridiculous about it. If you set up a corporation for the purposes of committing a crime, you are committing the crime. Doesn't matter what the crime is. Incorporation can protect you from business debts by declaring bankruptcy in some (not all) cases. It cannot protect you in any way from criminal liability. Nor can it protect you from civil liability associated with wrong-doing.
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First you have to be sued by the Copyright holder. If you have a Enterprise then They have to sue the Enterprise and not the Individual.

As for Bankruptcy anybody can file for bankruptcy not just a company, a cooperation or a Enterprise.

Bankruptcy can be filed by an Individual.

Bankruptcy can be filed by anybody to protect them.

Let me ask you a question. If "lets say wall-mart" done you wrong right; Do you sue the owner or do you sue wall-mart?

When you have and cooperation or an Enterprise the owner can not be brought to court for something that the Cooperation or the Enterprise did. If any charges take place they have to sue the Cooperation or Enterprise directly. I am talking about suing because the person's with the copyright has to take them to court. Any charges that take place has to be brought up by the copyright owner.

Lets me give you another example

Mr. T has his slogan copyrighted. I piety The fool.

If somebody uses that to get money then Mr. T himself will have to bring charges on who used his slogon not the courts.

He has to file charges on them with the courts.
 
Sonny said:
I would have to disagree with you there. I work in the film industry and I’ve had several co-workers lose their jobs and have charges filed against them because of piracy issues (as well as violating NDAs). It happens a lot more than you think because most of the people are just guys who make copies at home/work and sell DVDs on the street. It can be a federal crime complete with FBI investigations but you’ll never hear about it because it was just some guy in his basement. Trust me, I’ve seen plenty of guys get busted for piracy because the industry takes it very seriously.



Is it not ridiculous to set up an enterprise for the purpose of illegally pirating movies?

-Sonny-
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If they are going to break the law then they should do stuff to protect them.

With that said. I believe any wrong doing is ridiculous. Rather it be from stealing cable or anything like piracy.

But I think it is more ridiculous to compare piracy to killing people. LOL

Yes that to me is more ridiculous.
 
GentleManSteve said:
First you have to be sued by the Copyright holder. If you have a Enterprise then They have to sue the Enterprise and not the Individual.

As for Bankruptcy anybody can file for bankruptcy not just a company, a cooperation or a Enterprise.

Bankruptcy can be filed by an Individual.

Bankruptcy can be filed by anybody to protect them.

Let me ask you a question. If "lets say wall-mart" done you wrong right; Do you sue the owner or do you sue wall-mart?

When you have and cooperation or an Enterprise the owner can not be brought to court for something that the Cooperation or the Enterprise did. If any charges take place they have to sue the Cooperation or Enterprise directly. I am talking about suing because the person's with the copyright has to take them to court. Any charges that take place has to be brought up by the copyright owner.

Lets me give you another example

Mr. T has his slogan copyrighted. I piety The fool.

If somebody uses that to get money then Mr. T himself will have to bring charges on who used his slogon not the courts.

He has to file charges on them with the courts.
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1. You can sue a corporation, the owners of the corporation, managers of the corporation and agents of the corporation all at the same time. In fact this is common. In the case of an S-corporation, limited partnership or DBA, you always sue the individuals.
2. Bankruptcy by an individual is now extremely limited in the US and is very different from corporate bankruptcy filings.
3. Walmart runs a legal business. Organizations that operate piracy sites do not. However, even with businesses that are generally legal, you can sue or charge the management. Enron comes to mind. There have been billions in suits filed against Enron and billions more against Enron's banks. The CEO was convicted and died facing 20 to 30 years in prison. The previous CEO, Jeffrey Skilling, is currently serving a 24-year, 4-month prison sentence at the Federal Correctional Institution, Waseca.
4. Criminal charges are always brought by the state -- not the copyright holder. An individual cannot bring criminal charges. PirateBay was charged with conspiracy to violate copyright law by the Swedish government.
5. You cannot copyright a slogan. "I pity the fool" is a trademark. Different problem.
 
GentleManSteve said:
If they are going to break the law then they should do stuff to protect them.

With that said. I believe any wrong doing is ridiculous. Rather it be from stealing cable or anything like piracy.

But I think it is more ridiculous to compare piracy to killing people. LOL

Yes that to me is more ridiculous.
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Exactly. Which is why you cannot shield yourself from criminal liability by creating a corporation. If you could, then you could murder someone and get away with it. A corporation is not a shield against criminal activity.
 
QFIT said:
1. You can sue a corporation, the owners of the corporation, managers of the corporation and agents of the corporation all at the same time. In fact this is common. In the case of an S-corporation, limited partnership or DBA, you always sue the individuals.
2. Bankruptcy by an individual is now extremely limited in the US and is very different from corporate bankruptcy filings.
3. Walmart runs a legal business. Organizations that operate piracy sites do not. However, even with businesses that are generally legal, you can sue or charge the management. Enron comes to mind. There have been billions in suits filed against Enron and billions more against Enron's banks. The CEO was convicted and died facing 20 to 30 years in prison. The previous CEO, Jeffrey Skilling, is currently serving a 24-year, 4-month prison sentence at the Federal Correctional Institution, Waseca.
4. Criminal charges are always brought by the state -- not the copyright holder. An individual cannot bring criminal charges. PirateBay was charged with conspiracy to violate copyright law by the Swedish government.
5. You cannot copyright a slogan. "I pity the fool" is a trademark. Different problem.
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I was hoping you would bring Enron up cause Enron was no longer a business cause it went out of business and left all the shareholders in the dark. That is why the courts went after them and not after the business. Go back to school on that one.

And I never said a cooperation or Enterprise is shielded by being either one. I said you could not sue an Individual of either one. You have to sue the cooperation or Enterprise.

Man read what I say and quit coming up with all the wall arguments.
 
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