How do you track by rounds played? I've been counting hours but I have no good way to convert back because I can't remember whether it was me heads up against a dealer, or me and my five closest, ploppiest friends (watched a guy hit hard 17 last trip -- it made a different ploppy leave the table...the guy who had hit said he did it deliberately to make that guy leave!)
odd breakdown of results
- Thread starter KewlJ
- Start date
I have tried several different ways of tracking my play. First 'time', because all the books talk about such and such rounds per hour and EV in terms of hour. Once I decided that I didn't want to play all the negative counts, opting for not playing a TC of -3 over playing with minimum bet and negative count index plays, my sessions became much shorter due to aggressive wong outs. So I ended up with all these small segments of time. 12 minutes here, 17 minutes there, 8 minutes over there. It just didn't make sense to be adding these up and trying to stack them into hourly increments.
Next, because I was playing Atlantic City and all shoe games, I went to tracking number of shoes played. But the aggressive wong outs created the same problem....partial shoes.
Plus there was the added problem that all shoes are not created equal. If I was fortunate enough to get a game heads up or even with one other player, the rounds played in that shoe could vary as much as 45 -50 (heads up) to 12 or so for a full table. It just didn't make sense to count each of these segments as a "shoe played".
In the end it really comes down to rounds played. Your results and expectation will come down to rounds played, so that seemed like the thing to track. Obviously I am not going to sit there and count rounds along with my primary count. So I use estimation. I use 2.8 cards average per player per round, including dealer, unless it is heads up play in which the dealer drops to 2.7 for a total of 5.5 (player and dealer per round).
I then just add up all my rounds played to figure EV and win rate (per 100 rounds). This way 50 rounds played is 50 rounds played, whether I get those 50 rounds playing 10 minutes in a heads up game or over an hour playing in the shadows on a crowed weekend night. Rounds is what matters. And it is rounds played, not rounds seen. Rounds played is going to determine both EV and actual win (in the longrun).
Next, because I was playing Atlantic City and all shoe games, I went to tracking number of shoes played. But the aggressive wong outs created the same problem....partial shoes.
Plus there was the added problem that all shoes are not created equal. If I was fortunate enough to get a game heads up or even with one other player, the rounds played in that shoe could vary as much as 45 -50 (heads up) to 12 or so for a full table. It just didn't make sense to count each of these segments as a "shoe played".In the end it really comes down to rounds played. Your results and expectation will come down to rounds played, so that seemed like the thing to track. Obviously I am not going to sit there and count rounds along with my primary count. So I use estimation. I use 2.8 cards average per player per round, including dealer, unless it is heads up play in which the dealer drops to 2.7 for a total of 5.5 (player and dealer per round).
I then just add up all my rounds played to figure EV and win rate (per 100 rounds). This way 50 rounds played is 50 rounds played, whether I get those 50 rounds playing 10 minutes in a heads up game or over an hour playing in the shadows on a crowed weekend night. Rounds is what matters. And it is rounds played, not rounds seen. Rounds played is going to determine both EV and actual win (in the longrun).
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In re-reading, I guess I didn't really get into "how".
6 deck game, dealt to 75% pen (fairly standard). That is 234 cards dealt before the cut card.
3 player, plus dealer. That is 4 players X 2.8 cards. that is 11.2 cards per round. I will round that to 11.
11 goes into 234 slightly more than 21 times. 21.something,
I round down dropping the point-something.
21 rounds if I played the whole shoe.
If I drop out partway through the shoe I estimate that. 2/3 would be 14 rounds.
Reading this, I feel like it sounds complicated. It's not. Takes like 2 seconds after you get used to it.
6 deck game, dealt to 75% pen (fairly standard). That is 234 cards dealt before the cut card.
3 player, plus dealer. That is 4 players X 2.8 cards. that is 11.2 cards per round. I will round that to 11.
11 goes into 234 slightly more than 21 times. 21.something,
I round down dropping the point-something.
21 rounds if I played the whole shoe.
If I drop out partway through the shoe I estimate that. 2/3 would be 14 rounds.
Reading this, I feel like it sounds complicated. It's not. Takes like 2 seconds after you get used to it.
KewlJ said:
I have tried several different ways of tracking my play. First 'time', because all the books talk about such and such rounds per hour and EV in terms of hour. Once I decided that I didn't want to play all the negative counts, opting for not playing a TC of -3 over playing with minimum bet and negative count index plays, my sessions became much shorter due to aggressive wong outs. So I ended up with all these small segments of time. 12 minutes here, 17 minutes there, 8 minutes over there. It just didn't make sense to be adding these up and trying to stack them into hourly increments.
Next, because I was playing Atlantic City and all shoe games, I went to tracking number of shoes played. But the aggressive wong outs created the same problem....partial shoes. Plus there was the added problem that all shoes are not created equal. If I was fortunate enough to get a game heads up or even with one other player, the rounds played in that shoe could vary as much as 45 -50 (heads up) to 12 or so for a full table. It just didn't make sense to count each of these segments as a "shoe played".
In the end it really comes down to rounds played. Your results and expectation will come down to rounds played, so that seemed like the thing to track. Obviously I am not going to sit there and count rounds along with my primary count. So I use estimation. I use 2.8 cards average per player per round, including dealer, unless it is heads up play in which the dealer drops to 2.7 for a total of 5.5 (player and dealer per round).
I then just add up all my rounds played to figure EV and win rate (per 100 rounds). This way 50 rounds played is 50 rounds played, whether I get those 50 rounds playing 10 minutes in a heads up game or over an hour playing in the shadows on a crowed weekend night. Rounds is what matters. And it is rounds played, not rounds seen. Rounds played is going to determine both EV and actual win (in the longrun).
Next, because I was playing Atlantic City and all shoe games, I went to tracking number of shoes played. But the aggressive wong outs created the same problem....partial shoes.
Plus there was the added problem that all shoes are not created equal. If I was fortunate enough to get a game heads up or even with one other player, the rounds played in that shoe could vary as much as 45 -50 (heads up) to 12 or so for a full table. It just didn't make sense to count each of these segments as a "shoe played".In the end it really comes down to rounds played. Your results and expectation will come down to rounds played, so that seemed like the thing to track. Obviously I am not going to sit there and count rounds along with my primary count. So I use estimation. I use 2.8 cards average per player per round, including dealer, unless it is heads up play in which the dealer drops to 2.7 for a total of 5.5 (player and dealer per round).
I then just add up all my rounds played to figure EV and win rate (per 100 rounds). This way 50 rounds played is 50 rounds played, whether I get those 50 rounds playing 10 minutes in a heads up game or over an hour playing in the shadows on a crowed weekend night. Rounds is what matters. And it is rounds played, not rounds seen. Rounds played is going to determine both EV and actual win (in the longrun).
$/HR is still good, even in that situation, because $/HR is going to be even higher if you skip playing during negative counts. Really, this whole thing is a time investment anyways, so, for me, knowing my $/HR is the most important information to me.
Thanks very much for all of it. I guess my reticence is that this is one more thing to be tracking while I'm trying to focus on counting, which is something that's getting closer to habitual for me but I'm not quite there yet. It's just a little bit resource-intensive at the moment for me, and I'm trying to keep conversations going with the ploppies, waitress, my fiancee, and so on for cover.
I guess the other thing is if you're estimating anyhow, how bad is backing into "I played roughly 45 minutes at a full table, so I got about X rounds in?" I dunno. I've been estimating hours and rounding down to factor in wong-outs basically. I've played roughly 25 hours so far, mostly at tables with a few other people, so I mean, I'd say maybe 50 rounds an hour? There's just so many color ins/outs, so many ploppies tanking on trivial decisions, and so on.
I guess the other thing is if you're estimating anyhow, how bad is backing into "I played roughly 45 minutes at a full table, so I got about X rounds in?" I dunno. I've been estimating hours and rounding down to factor in wong-outs basically. I've played roughly 25 hours so far, mostly at tables with a few other people, so I mean, I'd say maybe 50 rounds an hour? There's just so many color ins/outs, so many ploppies tanking on trivial decisions, and so on.
What is your bet spread? If it is max $100...you do not even need cover!
If the max is more like $200 or $300, then, yeah, some cover...or just play until you get asked to leave. Either way.
I got the first heat ever (as I started in February) this weekend....even though I am suppose to be $10-$100 spread...I lost (2) $100 hands in a row, then decided to do max bet $500 (yeah, don't get mad....I realize what this does to my RoR) and I won...then a suit came over and stood near the table for about 15 minutes.
That was it, as I slowed down my betting drastically after that. Yes, I won the $500 bet. I had a 12 to the dealers 10 card. I drew a 6 for 18..the dealer miraculously busted! Close one. Can't do too many of those or my RoR will suffer...oh yeah, last night I did a $300 bet and happened to get blackjack....whoops!
If the max is more like $200 or $300, then, yeah, some cover...or just play until you get asked to leave. Either way.
I got the first heat ever (as I started in February) this weekend....even though I am suppose to be $10-$100 spread...I lost (2) $100 hands in a row, then decided to do max bet $500 (yeah, don't get mad....I realize what this does to my RoR) and I won...then a suit came over and stood near the table for about 15 minutes.
That was it, as I slowed down my betting drastically after that. Yes, I won the $500 bet. I had a 12 to the dealers 10 card. I drew a 6 for 18..the dealer miraculously busted! Close one. Can't do too many of those or my RoR will suffer...oh yeah, last night I did a $300 bet and happened to get blackjack....whoops!