2 or 3 top tips for a counter returning to the game

[fungusAmongus]

hi everyone...glad i found this forum...been reading alot of the threads and am totally enjoying the information and humor of many of the posts here.

here's my story...back in the 80's when i was a CS major in collage, i bought Wong's Professional Blackjack and proceeded to write a piece of software that not only verified that card-counting actually DID give you a theoretical advantage over the house ( i thought that Wong may have been a shill for the casinos), but then trained me to count and modify my betting decisions per the book's tables. over the past 20 years i have been going to vegas once or twice a year and have kept my modest skills somewhat honed.

fast forward to today...i wrote some software in the last decade that became very valuable to the companies i consulted with, and recently collected a significant lump sum in exchange for any rights i may have had on the software..basically i was bought out.

im tired of corporate america and the daily doses of hypocrisy and back-stabbing that comes with that world, so i've decided to buckle down, REALLY re-learn counting, and to move to las vegas to become a semi-professional AP/musician (i've been playing guitar for 25 years and have been told many many times that i could/should be a professional).

my dream is to go to vegas, try to join a casino show band for semi-steady income, and then play blackjack 3-5 hours a day. i have a bankroll of roughly $100k (a small portion of my buyout money and just for blackjack, living expenses are seperate) for this venture, and plan to try a $25/$400 spread for as long as i can get away with it for. i have a pretty good tableside manner and am able to multitask very well, camo-ing my play.

so as i put my ducks in a row to get ready for this life-changeing event, i thought i could ask the wise people here this questions...

IF YOU COULD GIVE TWO CHUNKS OF ADVICE TO A EXPERIENCED, BUT NEW, CARD-COUNTER LIKE ME WHAT WOULD IT BE??

i really do understand the problems of SD, bet-size, heat, playing shifts etc etc, but i do lack in day-to-day experience and the realities of that lifestyle, so i am asking you for help.

i want to thank everyone in advance for any insights you may have...

regards,
- mark

 

[creeping panther]

fungus

hi everyone...glad i found this forum...been reading alot of the threads and am totally enjoying the information and humor of many of the posts here.

here's my story...back in the 80's when i was a CS major in collage, i bought Wong's Professional Blackjack and proceeded to write a piece of software that not only verified that card-counting actually DID give you a theoretical advantage over the house ( i thought that Wong may have been a shill for the casinos), but then trained me to count and modify my betting decisions per the book's tables. over the past 20 years i have been going to vegas once or twice a year and have kept my modest skills somewhat honed.

fast forward to today...i wrote some software in the last decade that became very valuable to the companies i consulted with, and recently collected a significant lump sum in exchange for any rights i may have had on the software..basically i was bought out.

im tired of corporate america and the daily doses of hypocrisy and back-stabbing that comes with that world, so i've decided to buckle down, REALLY re-learn counting, and to move to las vegas to become a semi-professional AP/musician (i've been playing guitar for 25 years and have been told many many times that i could/should be a professional).

my dream is to go to vegas, try to join a casino show band for semi-steady income, and then play blackjack 3-5 hours a day. i have a bankroll of roughly $100k (a small portion of my buyout money and just for blackjack, living expenses are seperate) for this venture, and plan to try a $25/$400 spread for as long as i can get away with it for. i have a pretty good tableside manner and am able to multitask very well, camo-ing my play.

so as i put my ducks in a row to get ready for this life-changeing event, i thought i could ask the wise people here this questions...

IF YOU COULD GIVE TWO CHUNKS OF ADVICE TO A EXPERIENCED, BUT NEW, CARD-COUNTER LIKE ME WHAT WOULD IT BE??

i really do understand the problems of SD, bet-size, heat, playing shifts etc etc, but i do lack in day-to-day experience and the realities of that lifestyle, so i am asking you for help.

i want to thank everyone in advance for any insights you may have...

regards,
- mark

Since you seem to understand the game my advice,

Start slow, do not be greedy and don't get carried away with the life style. That is live clean, beware of scammers, users, players, and that includes scheming women.

BJ can be the least of your problems,,,if you play fine games and have discipline.

CP

 

[Sucker]

im tired of corporate america and the daily doses of hypocrisy and back-stabbing that comes with that world

The hypocrisy and back-stabbing that goes on in the world of the Las Vegas entertainer/musician will make the people in the corporate world seem like saints. Move to Vegas. You'll see.

 

[fungusAmongus]

Since you seem to understand the game my advice,

Start slow, do not be greedy and don't get carried away with the life style. That is live clean, beware of scammers, users, players, and that includes scheming women.

BJ can be the least of your problems,,,if you play fine games and have discipline.

CP

CP i think you just gave me some outstanding advice. i think im ready for the challenges that you mention and have several strategies to keep focused and keep real...

also, i was wondering if you or anyone else has an update on the state of "heat" these days..i was in vegas few months ago at the Red Rock and had no problem whatsoever doing a $25-$300 spread...i mean NO HEAT WHATSOEVER..is that indicative of the large strip casinos these days, or was i just lucky?

again, thanks CP...i sense a great deal of wisdom in your advice/

 

[fungusAmongus]

The hypocrisy and back-stabbing that goes on in the world of the Las Vegas entertainer/musician will make the people in the corporate world seem like saints. Move to Vegas. You'll see.

well im gonna, but im not looking to play in the big big venues...ill be happy with $500/week or so. im sure breaking in will have its share of challenges and perhaps i am being naive, but that's just part of the whole experience.

thanks for your input

 

[MAZ]

IF YOU COULD GIVE TWO CHUNKS OF ADVICE TO A EXPERIENCED, BUT NEW, CARD-COUNTER LIKE ME WHAT WOULD IT BE??

1. Very few books or message board advice will give you what it takes to play the game as a pro. Aside from Beyond Counting Exhibit CAA, most reputable blackjack books offer sound math principles with little practical application backing it. Not all but most accomplished blackjack authors are just that, and not money players. Most new and even experienced players don't get that or refuse to believe it, too bad. Recreational ap play and playing as a pro are very different regardless what those who don't play professionally tell you.


2. If Professional Blackjack by Wong is your go to for how to make money and a living, you better be a damn good guitar player.

 

[kewljason]

also, i was wondering if you or anyone else has an update on the state of "heat" these days..i was in vegas few months ago at the Red Rock and had no problem whatsoever doing a $25-$300 spread...i mean NO HEAT WHATSOEVER..is that indicative of the large strip casinos these days, or was i just lucky?

I played a $25-$300 spread all last year and bumped up to $25-$400 this year. This is a good level for strip casinos. Once you hit the $500 there is a whole new round of scutiny.

My advice is play short sessions and move around alot, spread your play among many different casinos and different shifts. Especially try to play weekend night shifts when it is crowded and even your max bet will seem tiny. Surveilance has much bigger fish to fry. I also advise against the trend of playing 2 hands of $200 or $300 at high counts as oppossed to 1 hand as many players recommend. Sims show this helps a great deal with variance, but my experience is that this move draws more heat than any other, including splitting 10's.

The biggest challange that awaits you is not the actual play, but dealing with the losing or flat stretches that will occur, sometimes months at a time. No book or advice can prepare you for this. It is something you have to experience several times before you begin to get comfortable with it. Having a secondary income may help with this some though, I don't know.

Best of luck.

 

[shadroch]

If $100,000 is but a small part of your buy-out, you'll be making $500 a week in interest with a CD. Why would you risk your money playing BJ if all you want is that measly amount?

 

[Billy C1]

I envy you

A 1-16 bet spread is rather difficult to camo but if you play several different stores the 1-12 you also mention may be tolerated.
If you hit "good positive variance" along with a strong game and too big of a spread the scrutiny is directly proportionate, I think.
Good tips CP gave you and Sucker's observation is true. Be very careful when choosing friends in LV! I'm fortunate enough to have some longtime acquaintences living there and hope to make same move you are, soon. In the meantime, you have my envy.
Maz: Wong has been highly regarded by most-------am I right in thinking his stuff may just be a little outdated (like me)???????

BillyC1

 

[kewljason]

A 1-16 bet spread is rather difficult to camo but if you play several different stores the 1-12 you also mention may be tolerated.

BillyC1

This is where short sessions and leaving after high counts comes into play.
Several different store? If you are in Vegas for any period of time as the Poster suggusts, play many many different stores.

 

[sagefr0g]

If $100,000 is but a small part of your buy-out, you'll be making $500 a week in interest with a CD. Why would you risk your money playing BJ if all you want is that measly amount?

excellent point, imho.

not just risk, but working his butt off as well, playing that much bj.

over long extended time it's gonna be constant noise, irritating people, and things will always be in flux as far as what advantages are available.
some advantage stuff will depend on opportunistic stuff, how is that gonna match up with professional musician gigs that are scheduled events?

still will be dealing with corporate stuff, that's what casino's are. it will always be a thing of the casino's slick ways against one's own.
the OP seems to be considering a work sort of venture, backed by capital.
just the thing is don't forget 'they wouldn't call it work if you liked it', sort of thing.

then there are the lurking temptations CP alludes to and unknown pit falls.
and MAZ points out how there is a difference between the picture that most books paint and the life of a real professional.

maybe try some sort of extended trial run so as to get a better idea of what this venture would really be like.

 

[Billy C1]

I hadn't read Jason and shad's posts when I made mine so let me add that I think Jason's advice should be more beneficial than mine as a result of him living there and being more current.
shad-----I wouldn't find fault with what you said here but will tell you that I find mixing up bj and vp (for variation sake) to be quite enjoyable for me.
That means that even a zero EV is acceptable (while not being desired) because I'm actually having fun. Yes, I'm compulsive but if one can AP both games while enjoying the experience it's all good.

BillyC1

 

[fungusAmongus]

If $100,000 is but a small part of your buy-out, you'll be making $500 a week in interest with a CD. Why would you risk your money playing BJ if all you want is that measly amount?

no i think you misunderstood...the $500/week is just for playing guitar in a show band...the bulk my my income will be made playing blackjack. my expected win at 40hours/week should be around 10x that..

 

[fungusAmongus]

1. Very few books or message board advice will give you what it takes to play the game as a pro. Aside from Beyond Counting Exhibit CAA, most reputable blackjack books offer sound math principles with little practical application backing it. Not all but most accomplished blackjack authors are just that, and not money players. Most new and even experienced players don't get that or refuse to believe it, too bad. Recreational ap play and playing as a pro are very different regardless what those who don't play professionally tell you.


2. If Professional Blackjack by Wong is your go to for how to make money and a living, you better be a damn good guitar player.

intriguing comment...i'll admit most of my study was initiated in the 80's where Wong's book was pretty much recognized as the bible for the game (math-wise at least). im sure things have changed...what would you recommend to read nowadays?

 

[fungusAmongus]

excellent point, imho.

...

maybe try some sort of extended trial run so as to get a better idea of what this venture would really be like.

well of course...i guess i thought this went without saying...hell im not even sure that the system im using (a modified Wong Halves <=2 deck 60% penetration) is a winner.

i have a lot of work to do still...what can i say i love the vegas environment, the live bands, DJs and such...the ability to make a decent wage playing music myself. it may only last a year or so but i want to give it my best shot...

 

[Meistro]

500 per week = $26,000 a year. If anyone could show me where you can invest $100,000 and make $26,000 I would be forever indebted to you.

 

[fungusAmongus]

500 per week = $26,000 a year. If anyone could show me where you can invest $100,000 and make $26,000 I would be forever indebted to you.

LOL!! yes a see your point...please note my response in a reply to shadroch. a "dream" of making $500/week sounds much more like a nightmare...

 

[MAZ]

500 per week = $26,000 a year. If anyone could show me where you can invest $100,000 and make $26,000 I would be forever indebted to you.

Really? Forever? MAZ will take care of ya. 26 grand, piece of cake. Being indebted to me forever............

 

[daddybo]

Really? Forever? MAZ will take care of ya. 26 grand, piece of cake. Being indebted to me forever............

:laugh:

 

[MAZ]

intriguing comment...i'll admit most of my study was initiated in the 80's where Wong's book was pretty much recognized as the bible for the game (math-wise at least). im sure things have changed...what would you recommend to read nowadays?

The math still stands up, nothing wrong with Wong's book. Just know he did not make a living playing the game as he writes it. To avoid the troubles of large stressful swings that a recreational counter has the luxury of withstanding without effecting quality of life, its best to be more prepared than with just a "Wong like" approach. Beyond Counting Exhibit CAA is a great example of what a pro should be exposed to. No gaurantees, most average counters don't want the burden to take on more challenges. But most average counters aren't aspiring to be pros, and all average counters that do, are failed pros.