3 card index

[Warlord]

I am running some kitchen table games and have 7, 2 and a 6 for 15.

Ddealer has a 9 up.

True count (HiLo) is ~5.5

Single deck.

Index from Wongs Pro BJ:
10-5 vs 9 =7
9-6 vs 9 =8
8-7 vs 9 =11

I know that I am far from any of these, but since it is a 3 card 15 what is the proper move? I have read to stay on 16 vs 10 when considering the rule of 45 (54?) etc., does something like that apply here with the high count?

On the table is a 7,2,6,9 and TC is + 5+, I just do not want to hit it since I have not seen a ten and the count is so high.

Is there a 3 card index for this situation?

thanx for the assistance.

 

[SleightOfHand]

I am running some kitchen table games and have 7, 2 and a 6 for 15.

Ddealer has a 9 up.

True count (HiLo) is ~5.5

Single deck.

Index from Wongs Pro BJ:
10-5 vs 9 =7
9-6 vs 9 =8
8-7 vs 9 =11

I know that I am far from any of these, but since it is a 3 card 15 what is the proper move? I have read to stay on 16 vs 10 when considering the rule of 45 (54?) etc., does something like that apply here with the high count?

On the table is a 7,2,6,9 and TC is + 5+, I just do not want to hit it since I have not seen a ten and the count is so high.

Is there a 3 card index for this situation?

thanx for the assistance.

I would say hit. I do not know the CD index plays, and I have no intention on learning them. Just looking at the indexes for the hand you are mentioning shows that the amount of profit you are going to gain from learning such plays will be miniscule (+7 counts occur less than .5% of the time and the chances of such a hand occuring in said count with the gain from making the right play would probably give something like 10 cents a year if betting black(Ok that number was completely made up, but you get my drift)). I'd rather learn the index plays for the different types of games (S17, H17, DAS, NDAS, 2D, 8D, etc). If you have done this, which I dont think, but wth do I know, I would suggest learning a better counting system to gain a higher edge.

The rule of 45 (which I just had to look up), is of use pretty much only to the BS player. Consider a 10/6 v 10. Off the top of a shoe, this is an RC of -1. BS says hit, which agrees with the index play (if using RC for index plays of 0). The rule of 45 assumes a 4 or 5 in your hand, which means it must contain 3 or more cards. If such is the case, your RC cannot be lower than 0 (except in the instance of 5/10/A v10, but as this is the only case, can be disregarded in providing a general rule), which would once again agree with your index play.

 

[Warlord]

I would say hit. I do not know the CD index plays, and I have no intention on learning them. Just looking at the indexes for the hand you are mentioning shows that the amount of profit you are going to gain from learning such plays will be miniscule (+7 counts occur less than .5% of the time and the chances of such a hand occuring in said count with the gain from making the right play would probably give something like 10 cents a year if betting black(Ok that number was completely made up, but you get my drift)). I'd rather learn the index plays for the different types of games (S17, H17, DAS, NDAS, 2D, 8D, etc). If you have done this, which I dont think, but wth do I know, I would suggest learning a better counting system to gain a higher edge.

The rule of 45 (which I just had to look up), is of use pretty much only to the BS player. Consider a 10/6 v 10. Off the top of a shoe, this is an RC of -1. BS says hit, which agrees with the index play (if using RC for index plays of 0). The rule of 45 assumes a 4 or 5 in your hand, which means it must contain 3 or more cards. If such is the case, your RC cannot be lower than 0 (except in the instance of 5/10/A v10, but as this is the only case, can be disregarded in providing a general rule), which would once again agree with your index play.

Thanks for the reply,

I had a max bet out and wanted to make the correct play. Which I assume is to hit (but I had not seen a ten since early in the last hand). I do not care if it is .10/yr cents or whatever, at the time it is a huge bet. I ended up staying on it and the dealer had a 4 under and took the ten to bust. I played on my hunch I suppose which I do not want to do. (even though it worked this time)

I thought maybe there was a rule to my situation with 3 cards etc.

I now know BS and over 25 index plays for both SD and 6D and all the variations that I find around where I live. I mostly play SD as there are many great ones around here.
I am starting to incorporate some of the different indices for 2 card hands and want to learn 3 card/CD plays if there are some for SD since it is what I play and I want to make my SD game as tight as possible.

Yes, I want more of an edge and I am learning Mentor now but continue to play everyday (just about) so I am still using HiLo until I have Mentor and its indices learned (which will take some time)

 

[SleightOfHand]

I had a max bet out and wanted to make the correct play. Which I assume is to hit (but I had not seen a ten since early in the last hand). I do not care if it is .10/yr cents or whatever, at the time it is a huge bet. I ended up staying on it and the dealer had a 4 under and took the ten to bust. I played on my hunch I suppose which I do not want to do. (even though it worked this time)

Well then, you are quite the "lucky" felow :grin: I hope you understand that the result of this single instance means almost nothing

I thought maybe there was a rule to my situation with 3 cards etc.

Well, if it is just for the sake of knowing, I would assume that there are indexes for any amount of cards. However I don't know them. If you have CVData, I'm sure you can find it there. But since you are asking this question, I am assuming you don't. Does anyone have a canned sim for this?

I now know BS and over 25 index plays for both SD and 6D and all the variations that I find around where I live. I mostly play SD as there are many great ones around here.
I am starting to incorporate some of the different indices for 2 card hands and want to learn 3 card/CD plays if there are some for SD since it is what I play and I want to make my SD game as tight as possible.

I suggest learning the rest of the TD indexes before learning the CD/Multi-card indexes.

And by the by, if I have come off as rude, cocky, etc, my apologies. While I may be a little cocky (although I have no right to be as I am still new and do have not done much real study on the theory of bj), I consider myself VERY objective. That being the case, much of what I say may appear to have connotations when there is absolutely none. Just to prove my desire for peace, :cow: If this doesn't prove it, I dont know what will! :laugh:

 

[Warlord]

Well then, you are quite the "lucky" felow :grin: I hope you understand that the result of this single instance means almost nothing

It meant a ton (relatively$) on my kitchen table.
I know I will come across this again in real play and I will probably hit it, or not????:grin:

Well, if it is just for the sake of knowing, I would assume that there are indexes for any amount of cards. However I don't know them. If you have CVData, I'm sure you can find it there. But since you are asking this question, I am assuming you don't. Does anyone have a canned sim for this?

Nope, I do not have that sw yet.
I plan on buying Verite first.

I suggest learning the rest of the TD indexes before learning the CD/Multi-card indexes.

maybe, I am learning Mentor too but I am playing daily so I am still practicing HiLo and learning plays, hopefully I will be playing with mentor FT by the end of the year.

And by the by, if I have come off as rude, cocky, etc, my apologies. While I may be a little cocky (although I have no right to be as I am still new and do have not done much real study on the theory of bj), I consider myself VERY objective. That being the case, much of what I say may appear to have connotations when there is absolutely none. Just to prove my desire for peace, :cow: If this doesn't prove it, I dont know what will! :laugh:

Falking ah, JK.:flame::devil:

bring it on, I can take it. I like to keep an open mind and hear all I can and then process it as I see fit. some of it gets filed in my cranial library...some goes in the trash.

:cow: back at ya sleight :laugh:

 

[zengrifter]

...I am learning Mentor now but continue to play everyday (just about) so I am still using HiLo until I have Mentor and its indices learned (which will take some time)

Take a hiatus, suspend your play, and learn mentor - you'll be motivated to learn faster.
Trust me on this - its like VOODOO - but you'll come out of the pit screaming high above EV. zg

 

[Warlord]

Take a hiatus, suspend your play, and learn mentor - you'll be motivated to learn faster.
Trust me on this - its like VOODOO - but you'll come out of the pit screaming high above EV. zg

zg,

thanks for the advice.

So I take it you think Mentor is worth it?

what is like voodoo? mentor? it is very much like zen is it not.

I am perplexed, I have spent so much time learning HiLo and indices and counting the cards but I want more. And now I am studying two systems!

I suppose I need to decide and then focus. Although I can count the deck both ways (very slow w/ mentor)

I may very well drop the HiLo and take some time off and learn Mentor, build my BR, do some skiing etc and then hit it hard after the holidays.
Except I am playing in the morning down in Drano so maybe we will see after that.

thanks

 

[Kasi]

It meant a ton (relatively$) on my kitchen table.
I know I will come across this again in real play and I will probably hit it, or not????::

I'd say hit it since the main index for a total of 15 vs 9 is +8.

Don't ask me why lol. Maybe because it's pretty likely the dealer already has one of those tens underneath and you may as well hit and hope lol.

There are alot of 2&3&more card combos you could use if dealt off the top of a deck heads-up regardless of count.

 

[Warlord]

I'd say hit it since the main index for a total of 15 vs 9 is +8.

Don't ask me why lol. Maybe because it's pretty likely the dealer already has one of those tens underneath and you may as well hit and hope lol.

There are alot of 2&3&more card combos you could use if dealt off the top of a deck heads-up regardless of count.

thanks for the input Kasi,

Yeah, I think i would hit it when i come across it again. I got lucky in my practice.

With the count so high and the absence of tens up till then I would think that under that 9 is a ten, seems likely, thus might as well hit the 15.

damned if u do , damned if u don't

 

[Kasi]

damned if u do , damned if u don't

Ain't that often the truth :grin:

But look into composition-dependent BS exceptions too. If ever playing heads-up, they can help out a little regardless of count. And not hard to learn. Can't hurt.

Stuff like hit 7,5 and 8,4 vs 3. Hit 10,2 vs 4 & 6, Hit 10,3 vs 2. Stand 6,5,5 & 8,84,4 & 8,5,3 vs 9 etc. (if S17 anyway). There's a bunch.

Not like it will make you a fortune or anything but what the heck. You'll have the added benefit of pis*ing people off or at least looking like an idiot to the house.

After off-the-top, use index departures.