4 deck trop---heaven or AP trap

[takinfromindians97]

I know we have all heard of the new 4 deck game that the trop in AC is offering. My question or actually worry is that this is going to be a trap that they use to identify and half shoe APs in the future. These games have awful pen and are watched very closely. :whip:
I have talked to a few people who really are the one who got me thinking these games are nothing more then a clever way to lure us into being on some sort of list of counters. :whip:
I was just putting this out there to hear what all you guys who know much more about this world then i do, have to say about it. Also i just wanted to put it as kind of a warning to all who may go to try these 4 deck games out, this may make you think twice or at least up your camoflaguing techniques.
Either way if you dont think its a trap feel free to jump in and share your thoughts. Thanks everyone.

 

[rollem411]

I know we have all heard of the new 4 deck game that the trop in AC is offering. My question or actually worry is that this is going to be a trap that they use to identify and half shoe APs in the future. These games have awful pen and are watched very closely. :whip:
I have talked to a few people who really are the one who got me thinking these games are nothing more then a clever way to lure us into being on some sort of list of counters. :whip:
I was just putting this out there to hear what all you guys who know much more about this world then i do, have to say about it. Also i just wanted to put it as kind of a warning to all who may go to try these 4 deck games out, this may make you think twice or at least up your camoflaguing techniques.
Either way if you dont think its a trap feel free to jump in and share your thoughts. Thanks everyone.

If you are using a players card, I would suggest getting one without your real name on it. Don't present a fake license, or anything illegal, but get one that has a bogus name, use that and if all goes well for a few months than you know you are safe.

 

[MJ1]

How do you get a player's card with a bogus name? What type of ID must you present in order to apply for a bonus card?

I suppose you could always have a friend that is a non-AP apply for the card at the rewards counter...but then when you use his player card to check into a room won't they require some sort of ID to show you are the person whose name is on the card?

Thanks,
MJ

 

[takinfromindians97]

How do you get a player's card with a bogus name? What type of ID must you present in order to apply for a bonus card?

I suppose you could always have a friend that is a non-AP apply for the card at the rewards counter...but then when you use his player card to check into a room won't they require some sort of ID to show you are the person whose name is on the card?

Thanks,
MJ

The best way would be to have another identity, with credit cards ect.
But i believe what he means is just pick someones card up. You obviously would have to stay elsewhere or check in under your name and play under your fake one. People leave players club cards everywhere, at the slots, even on the floor you can find someone elses card anywhere. The problem with me though is they know my face, i can only play one certain shift, then i gotta move along or i get half shoed.If i do want to play I have to bounce from table to table with a spotter in order to play other shifts or it becomes very annoying to have to move when they half shoe you everytime. Hey whatever though, cant kick me out.:laugh:
T

 

[Ferretnparrot]

I have a card i created under a fake name, i,ll sell it to somebody if the price is right, its a funtioning card, not one i found on the ground. I have one for hilton and the tropicana.

I think i wrote an page on how i managed to get all of my players cards in fake names, it certainly can be done without an id, but its one of those things where you have to make a lot of attempts to get one success.


My former post on this subject:
http://www.blackjackinfo.com/bb/showthread.php?t=9115

 

[Thunder]

what's the point of having a fake player's card if you can't use the comps for anything. Every casino I go to requires you to show proper id in addition to the players card to get your comps. Forget about checking in. Then you would not onyl need the fake id and fake player's card but also a credit card with your fake name on it. Given that credit cards require your social security number, I don't see how you're going to pull that off and not risk some serious jail time.

 

[rollem411]

what's the point of having a fake player's card if you can't use the comps for anything. Every casino I go to requires you to show proper id in addition to the players card to get your comps. Forget about checking in. Then you would not onyl need the fake id and fake player's card but also a credit card with your fake name on it. Given that credit cards require your social security number, I don't see how you're going to pull that off and not risk some serious jail time.

It's not illegal to get a credit card with a fake name on it as long as you intend on paying the bills. Also, if you get a non government issued id with that name on it, I'm almost certain you can use that as a valid ID to get your comps. I don't know how strict casinos are with this and have never attempted.

I really have no use in hiding my identity because I am a low stakes player. I guess if you sit in the high roller pit and play BJ as a major source of income you would want to be a little more cautious. The number one thing to look out for is that you make sure you do everything carefully and be certain you are not doing anything illegal. If they do find out that you are playing under a false identity, the worst thing you want to happen is to just get kicked out...no police involved.

 

[Ferretnparrot]

To get a credit card in a fake name...

1. Open a credit card in your name
2. Fill in the spot on the application for additional authorised user of your account with the name desired
3. Receive cards in mail

Its not rocket science man

 

[Thunder]

I finally got to play the new 4 deck game there. SO much better than 8 decks!! The cards you expected to come out actually would come out instead of dealers pulling 6,5,4,6 when the count was +. I kid you not, when I was at the Borgata a few days ago, I had a running count of +24!! I had my max bet out for a while and still couldn't pull any 20s or BJ's. Got hammered big time. I should have just of played at the Trop. I have to say though the casino itself definitely needs to own more than two restaurants because before 1pm there is only one place open so there's like a 40 min wait just to get seated. The 4 deck game definitely is a card counter trap as I've never seen so many pitbosses in such a small area.

 

[kungfupanda]

I finally got to play the new 4 deck game there. SO much better than 8 decks!! The cards you expected to come out actually would come out instead of dealers pulling 6,5,4,6 when the count was +. I kid you not, when I was at the Borgata a few days ago, I had a running count of +24!! I had my max bet out for a while and still couldn't pull any 20s or BJ's. Got hammered big time. I should have just of played at the Trop. I have to say though the casino itself definitely needs to own more than two restaurants because before 1pm there is only one place open so there's like a 40 min wait just to get seated. The 4 deck game definitely is a card counter trap as I've never seen so many pitbosses in such a small area.

I heard that tropicana might be under new management soon...

 

[Thunder]

Yeah, they're having a bk auction I think.

 

[nottooshabby]

Slow . . . sign o' the times

Finally got to play there today . . . nice game!! Man A.C. was dead, played $25 min table, penetration was consistently excellent (> 70%). The bad weather probably kept a few folks at home, too. No perceptible heat, no player's card, no half-shoeing or preferential shuffles. It would have been a even better day had I not gotten my ass thoroughly kicked at Trump Plaza earlier

 

[Ethan]

Unwritten gentleman's agreement policy

Finally got to play there today . . . nice game!! Man A.C. was dead, played $25 min table, penetration was consistently excellent (> 70%). The bad weather probably kept a few folks at home, too. No perceptible heat, no player's card, no half-shoeing or preferential shuffles. It would have been a even better day had I not gotten my ass thoroughly kicked at Trump Plaza earlier

Except for the defunct Claridge, most AC casinos have an unwritten gentleman's agreement policy to deal with APs:

1) Do not allow an AP to bet over $100, Shuffle up if more than a $100 bet,


2) Do not allow an AP to play more than 1 hand, and


3) Let the AP alone if he/she goes along with the unwritten gentleman's agreement policy.

By the way, an AP was let alone at the 4decker pit. He bet $95 whenever he felt like it, and the rest of time he just sat at his seat betting the minimum. I felt sorry for him because the dealer just pulled great cards and took his greenchips away, hands after hands. Perhaps that AP needs to practice more at home because he've used the rainbow chips to keep track of the counts.

 

[21forme]

By the way, an AP was let alone at the 4decker pit. He bet $95 whenever he felt like it, and the rest of time he just sat at his seat betting the minimum. I felt sorry for him because the dealer just pulled great cards and took his greenchips away, hands after hands. Perhaps that AP needs to practice more at home because he've used the rainbow chips to keep track of the counts.

You may be misinterpreting the reason for the $95 bet.

A friend of mine was there recently and he heard the PC tell the dealer "shuffle up if he bets $100 or more." He used this to his advantage to get the dealer to shuffle when the count went negative.

 

[nottooshabby]

You may be misinterpreting the reason for the $95 bet.

A friend of mine was there recently and he heard the PC tell the dealer "shuffle up if he bets $100 or more." He used this to his advantage to get the dealer to shuffle when the count went negative.

Haha . . . thwarting the "Reno Shuffle" East coast style . . . love it!

 

[MJ1]

Except for the defunct Claridge, most AC casinos have an unwritten gentleman's agreement policy to deal with APs:

1) Do not allow an AP to bet over $100, Shuffle up if more than a $100 bet,


2) Do not allow an AP to play more than 1 hand, and

If this is true then this 4 deck game is a total waste of time. To even get a SCORE of 50 would require a 1 to 12 bet spread playing two hands at a time.

Now, somebody mentioned a table minimum of $25. In order for myself to even consider playing this game, I would have to be able to spread from 2 x $25 to 2 x $300. BUT, this would clearly violate the aforementioned conditions written above and the dealer would shuffle up.

Lastly, spreading 1 to 4 in this game and then fooling them into shuffling by putting out +$100 is a complete waste of time. I imagine the SCORE would be quite poor, but somebody run a simulation and let me know. This strategy would be analogous to spreading 1 to 4 with Hi-Lo and then leaving the shoe when the TC fell to <= -1.

MJ

 

[21forme]

At the time it happened, the table min was $5. A 19:1 spread is certainly +EV.

 

[rollem411]

Well for an update, there was no heat over at the trop today. Could have been because I lost about 80 units. Horrible, horrible day. Hit 2+shoes out of maybe 15 and the others were just shitting on my parade all day. Just one of those days where I couldn't fight back no matter what I tried.

 

[Ethan]

The $100-max rule

Well for an update, there was no heat over at the trop today. Could have been because I lost about 80 units. Horrible, horrible day. Hit 2+shoes out of maybe 15 and the others were just shitting on my parade all day. Just one of those days where I couldn't fight back no matter what I tried.

No heat! That's great, and I assume you've played within the Trop house's rule. Thanks for your cooperation and NOT ruining your fellow APs' missions, AKA milkruns. Yo don't you hate it when you lose your shirt while the young morons next table win piles of blackchips! Hey :grin: that's depressing fact of blackjack life. Good cards to you, and I'm sure that you'll recoup your loss with dividends.

 

[rukus]

there is no hard and fast $100 max rule. if you are getting hit with that rule and a shuffle-up you are not being subtle enough and need to work on being an AP not a counter (proper and relevant camo, proper playing time, proper demeanor, etc). that said, ive seen half shoes instituted there when big bettors come to the table in general (hoe STUPID), but no shuffle up on max bets. maybe that's just me.