A. C. July Revenue Report

FLASH1296

FLASH1296

Well-Known Member
Caesars:

CRAPS: lost $553,591 on $17,902,345 -3.1%
Carribbean Stud: lost $87,256 on $501,246 for -17.4%
Ultimate Texas Hold Em: won $3,059 on $391,043 +0.8%

Tropicana

CRAPS: lost $1,011,073 on $9,977,505 -10.1%


Golden Nugget

Pai Gow Tiles: lost $3,972 on $50,997 -7.8%

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The Blackjack "hold" was lowest at Resorts with 6.9%

Runner up was The Borgata with 7.7% (Craps there was just 7.2%)

The Borg' was the leading producer as always with gaming revenue of $64.4 million for the month. More than quadruple the trailers - Golden Nugget, Resorts, and The Hilton - now "rebranded" as ACH
 
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aslan

aslan

Well-Known Member
FLASH1296 said:
Caesars:

CRAPS: lost $553,591 on $17,902,345 -3.1%
Carribbean Stud: lost $87,256 on $501,246 for -17.4%
Ultimate Texas Hold Em: won $3,059 on $391,043 +0.8%

Tropicana

CRAPS: lost $1,011,073 on $9,977,505 -10.1%


Golden Nugget

Pai Gow Tiles: lost $3,972 on $50,997 -7.8%

*************************************​
​

The Blackjack "hold" was lowest at Resorts with 6.9%

Runner up was The Borgata with 7.7% (Craps there was just 7.2%)

The Borg' was the leading producer as always with gaming revenue of $64.4 million for the month. More than quadruple the trailers - Golden Nugget, Resorts, and The Hilton - now "rebranded" as ACH
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Are these gross revenue figures-- i.e., no netting of table expenses?

What is the source/link of these figures?
 
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aslan

aslan

Well-Known Member
aslan said:
Are these gross revenue figures-- i.e., no netting of table expenses?

What is the source/link of these figures?
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Never mind the source, I found it. http://www.nj.gov/oag/ge/docs/Financials/MGR2011/201107revenue.pdf For anyone interested, here are the revenue reports for all the Atlantic City casinos. Can you believe that the Borgata's win percentage at blackjack (7.7%) was actually greater than it's win percentage at $5 slot machines (7.3%)!? Ploppy city!
 
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pit15

Well-Known Member
aslan said:
Never mind the source, I found it. http://www.nj.gov/oag/ge/docs/Financials/MGR2011/201107revenue.pdf For anyone interested, here are the revenue reports for all the Atlantic City casinos. Can you believe that the Borgata's win percentage at blackjack (7.7%) was actually greater than it's win percentage at $5 slot machines (7.3%)!? Ploppy city!
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That's HOLD.

If a ploppy buys in for $200, sits there for 8 hours and leaves with nothing, then an AP wongs a shoe, buys in for $5000 and breaks even after playing 5 minutes, the win is 200, the drop is 5200 and the hold is 3.8%

Whereas if the AP buys in for a grey and loses it, the drop would only be 200, the win would be 5200, and the hold would be 2600%

See the flaws in using the hold %?

It's also one of the reasons I keep purple - grey at the places I play often. I can easily add 100K to the drop in a month if I buy in with cash every time. My bigger concerns are hitting the CTR limit though.
 
aslan

aslan

Well-Known Member
pit15 said:
That's HOLD.

If a ploppy buys in for $200, sits there for 8 hours and leaves with nothing, then an AP wongs a shoe, buys in for $5000 and breaks even after playing 5 minutes, the win is 200, the drop is 5200 and the hold is 3.8%

Whereas if the AP buys in for a grey and loses it, the drop would only be 200, the win would be 5200, and the hold would be 2600%

See the flaws in using the hold %?

It's also one of the reasons I keep purple - grey at the places I play often. I can easily add 100K to the drop in a month if I buy in with cash every time. My bigger concerns are hitting the CTR limit though.
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So the drop is just how much cash is put into play session by session. If you broke even and cashed in your chips each day and bought in again the next day, the drop would be 30 times $5,000 or $150,000, whereas if you broke even each day and simply kept your gray, the drop for th month would only be $5,000. For the report to make any sense, everyone would have to cash in their chips each day after each session. The win or loss is the only real number, but has no definite relationship to the hold.
 
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pit15

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aslan said:
So the drop is just how much cash is put into play session by session. If you broke even and cashed in your chips each day and bought in again the next day, the drop would be 30 times $5,000 or $150,000, whereas if you broke even each day and simply kept your gray, the drop for th month would only be $5,000. For the report to make any sense, everyone would have to cash in their chips each day after each session. The win or loss is the only real number, but has no definite relationship to the hold.
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Even if people cashed out after every session, the length of each session matters too.

I think hold % is a valid metric for table games performance, as part of it indicates how long people are staying at the game.

And ploppies generally do cash out and don't take chips home with them.

If you want to **** with a casino you can cause "false drop" by repetitively buying in / cashing out for large amounts with minimal/no play.

The higher house edge games do generally have a higher hold % too especially since those are the kinds of games people play until they lose it all.

Go to the hilton and drop 100K cash into their big six game over the course of a month (without any play) and you'll kill their hold % on that game.
 
FLASH1296

FLASH1296

Well-Known Member
There has been a spate of big Craps scores, starting with the nearly 6 million bux won by a single player at the Tropicana in June.

Also In June, Ceasers showed a loss of almost 1 million bux at blackjack.

As long as a casino is willing to permit patrons to gamble at high stakes, they have "exposure" to big losses. Once in a while they will need to absorb a big loss. Such is all but inevitable.

If they wanted to, they could insure against large losses by being underwritten by Lloyds of London.

A craps shooter, like poker giant Phil Ivey, who likes to shoot craps with million dollar buy-ins when he visits family in A.C., obviously can (conceivably) put a casino in the red for the day, week, or even, month. Casino gaming revenue in A.C. is on the order of 0.5 to 2.0 million dollars daily.

See this A.C. revenue link if you are curious about how much would need to be won to put a hurting on a particular A.C. casino.

http://www.nj.gov/oag/ge/docs/Financials/MGR2011/201107revenue.pdf

 
aslan

aslan

Well-Known Member
pit15 said:
Even if people cashed out after every session, the length of each session matters too.

I think hold % is a valid metric for table games performance, as part of it indicates how long people are staying at the game.

And ploppies generally do cash out and don't take chips home with them.

If you want to **** with a casino you can cause "false drop" by repetitively buying in / cashing out for large amounts with minimal/no play.

The higher house edge games do generally have a higher hold % too especially since those are the kinds of games people play until they lose it all.

Go to the hilton and drop 100K cash into their big six game over the course of a month (without any play) and you'll kill their hold % on that game.
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Which in turn, speaking of blackjack, not the wheel, will cause them to rethink their rules and pen. But won't they tighten their rules and decrease their pen so that they can achieve a larger win percentage from their magnified drop? Better they compare their wins against the smallest possible drop, no? Shouldn't I then do as Kewljason does and buy in for a small initial amount?
 
aslan

aslan

Well-Known Member
rrwoods said:
... Woah.
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0.8%? Are you thinking what I'm thinking? Advanced AP? Inside job? A lot of RSFs? Or as Pit points out, a lot of buy-ins that broke even.

The other casinos reporting Ultimate Texas Hold'em reported 21.5%. 26.5% AND 27.3%.

For the prior month. Caesar's was at 16.7, all others in the 20's and 30's.

For other months in 2011, J, F, M, A, and M, Caesar's showed all win %'s in the 20's and 30's.
 
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pit15

Well-Known Member
aslan said:
Which in turn, speaking of blackjack, not the wheel, will cause them to rethink their rules and pen. But won't they tighten their rules and decrease their pen so that they can achieve a larger win percentage from their magnified drop? Better they compare their wins against the smallest possible drop, no? Shouldn't I then do as Kewljason does and buy in for a small initial amount?
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There's a lot of things you can do.

Keep chips, buy chips from a different game.

At the end of the day, unless you're playing at a place a dozen+ times a month, don't worry about it. I use chips mainly because it keeps the game moving faster. Buying in with 2 orange is a lot quicker then having the dealer count out 20 100s. The amount you personally will drop is chump change. Yeah, if I bought in cash every time I'd add 100K to the monthly drop, that's a good amount, but that's because I'm playing there 15 days a month. If I was playing there for 1 or 2 days that'd be like 10K, who cares?
 
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pit15

Well-Known Member
FLASH1296 said:
Chips and Cash are treated identically as far as the Drop goes.
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No they're not..

Cash counts towards the drop, chips don't.

Think about this for a minute. The way they know how much is put into the drop box is they count the cash in the count room.

The way they know how many chips are brought to the table is by a PC recording the amount in the computer. If the casino's relying on the PCs to figure out their drop for them they're royally ****ed.
 
Sharky

Sharky

Well-Known Member
as someone who only plays BJ and having never checked out casino financials, i find it SHOCKING that a casino can lose -3% on $17MM in a 'stacked' game with all the ploppies at the casinos...maybe i am missing out on something w/ craps?
 
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