A few questions on counting

C

CathyRas

Active Member
#1
#1
First what the hell is "wonging" Can you give me a link or explain it to me. I often am lost by the posts as I don't know all the lingo yet.

Can someone explain true count? When I sit down at a table with a fresh shuffle the count should start at 0?

If I play a double deck how high should the cont be to increase the bet? I play low stakes $5 to $10. I am hoping to have $1,000 bankroll. Not trying to break Vegas (yet) but hope to have fun and maybe win a little.

Thanks

Cathy
 
zengrifter

zengrifter

Banned
#3
#3
Cathy -
Wonging means only playing +EV counts.
True Count = Running Count divided by remaining decks (or 1/2decks, etc.)

How to bet is key. Dependent on #decks and rules.

I want you to learn KISS count in BJ Bluebook. zg
 
FLASH1296

FLASH1296

Well-Known Member
#4
#4
KISS counting is very sub-optimal.

There are things that Z.G. knows very well; and then he comes out with absurdities like endorsing KISS. With that, you can KISS your cash goodbye.
 
Lonesome Gambler

Lonesome Gambler

Well-Known Member
#5
#5
CathyRas said:
First what the hell is "wonging" Can you give me a link or explain it to me. I often am lost by the posts as I don't know all the lingo yet.

Can someone explain true count? When I sit down at a table with a fresh shuffle the count should start at 0?

If I play a double deck how high should the cont be to increase the bet? I play low stakes $5 to $10. I am hoping to have $1,000 bankroll. Not trying to break Vegas (yet) but hope to have fun and maybe win a little.

Thanks

Cathy
Click to expand...
1. Wonging is generally referring to wonging in, which is where you stand at a table, keep the count, and then enter the game when the count is favorable. You can also wong out when the count goes south. So basically, entering when you have an egde and leaving when you don't. It's called wonging because it was popularized in the book "Professional Blackjack" by Stanford Wong.

2. True Count the running count divided by the remaining decks. As the number of decks unseen decreases, your running count becomes a more accurate representation of the actual pack composition. The true count is the method used to account for this phenomenon when there are multiple decks in play, to account for the dilution caused by having cards dispersed through multiple decks.

Example: the RC is +12 and you have 2.5 decks left. The TC is 12/2.5 = 4, assuming that you're flooring and not rounding. If you round, it's 5.

3. Most Vegas DD games will be breakeven or very slightly +EV when the TC is 1. You can bet your minimum unit ($5) when the count is negative or neutral and begin ramping your bets when the TC reaches 1.
 
P

prankster

Well-Known Member
#6
#6
Bullroahr Flash!

FLASH1296 said:
KISS counting is very sub-optimal.

There are things that Z.G. knows very well; and then he comes out with absurdities like endorsing KISS. With that, you can KISS your cash goodbye.
Click to expand...
Sorry but that's absolute nonsense. I've been using KISS III for years and it gets the money!
 
G

getwellboss

Member
#7
#7
prankster said:
Sorry but that's absolute nonsense. I've been using KISS III for years and it gets the money!
Click to expand...
I'm just curious, but how does this compare to KO?(which I'm currently using). I understand the difference between the two(suitwise and such), but what about performance? Does it benefit the count that much? Or is it just another method. It seems that a lot of people on this forum like it.
 
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zengrifter

zengrifter

Banned
#8
#8
FLASH1296 said:
KISS counting is very sub-optimal.
There are things that Z.G. knows very well; and then he comes out with absurdities like endorsing KISS. With that, you can KISS your cash goodbye.
Click to expand...
Whoa nelly! I recommended KISS as being equal to R7 or KO... is it not, in your esteemed opinion? zg
 
P

prankster

Well-Known Member
#9
#9
KO Count-Betting Correlation=97%
Playing Efficiency=55%

KISSIII Count-Betting Correlation=96%
Playing Efficiency=55%

Red 7-Betting Correlation=97%
Playing Correlation=53%

IRC with KISS III +9 (6 deck shoe game)
IRC with KO I believe is a minus # maybe minus12?? not sure-but personally my brain works better with a IRC that's a + number.

HiLo Count-Betting Correlation=97%
Playing Efficiency=51%
My understanding is that all the big time teams, (Tommy Hyland,M.I.T., etc) used the HiLo count. It's a balanced count. KO,Red7 and KISSIII are unbalanced counts. I don't care to use a balanced count, dividing my running count by the number of decks left to play-and the BC's and PE's above don't get me thinking it's imperative to use a balanced count. Like I said KISS III gets the $$$! Good cards! BTW Fred Renzey is a member of this board and he's real good about answering our questions. :joker:
 
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zengrifter

zengrifter

Banned
#10
#10
FLASH1296 said:
KISS counting is very sub-optimal.
Click to expand...
zengrifter said:
Whoa nelly! I recommended KISS as being equal to R7 or KO... is it not, in your esteemed opinion? zg
Click to expand...
Actually, Flash is right - I forget about the "sub" KISSes.

Cathy - I was referring to KISS-3 count-tags.
AND you will NOT need to calc a true count in play. Your running count will suffice.

BJ Blue Book. Do not learn the KISS-1 or 2 card tag values - go straight to KISS-3. zg
 
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zengrifter

zengrifter

Banned
#11
#11
getwellboss said:
I'm just curious, but how does this compare to KO?(which I'm currently using). I understand the difference between the two(suitwise and such), but what about performance? Does it benefit the count that much? Or is it just another method. It seems that a lot of people on this forum like it.
Click to expand...
In actually play the KISS-3 is equal to KO (preferred?) and Red-7.
Under a microscope it is slightly better.
This forum has a leaning towards it because its author Fred Renzey is a regular contributor here. zg
 
G

getwellboss

Member
#12
#12
zengrifter said:
In actually play the KISS-3 is equal to KO (preferred?) and Red-7.
Under a microscope it is slightly better.
This forum has a leaning towards it because its author Fred Renzey is a regular contributor here. zg
Click to expand...
ya preferred is what I'm using. I actually have been looking at reKO too after reading Modern Blackjack recently. Currently I'm still in the process of getting used to the "live" action i guess you would call it. I can count a single deck in about 20 seconds on average and have basic strategy down. So now, I just need to get better at the casinos. Still losing the count while playing there sadly...i guess i just need to keep practicing.
 
yesiamred

yesiamred

Well-Known Member
#13
#13
CathyRas said:
First what the hell is "wonging" Can you give me a link or explain it to me. I often am lost by the posts as I don't know all the lingo yet.



Can someone explain true count? When I sit down at a table with a fresh shuffle the count should start at 0?

If I play a double deck how high should the cont be to increase the bet? I play low stakes $5 to $10. I am hoping to have $1,000 bankroll. Not trying to break Vegas (yet) but hope to have fun and maybe win a little.

Thanks

Cathy
Click to expand...
Cathy, All you had to do was search "true count" and "wonging" on this forum, Google or any internet search engine and come up with an answer. Please research past forums as it is full of tremendous information! Good luck
 
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