A question of intent.

[Hinoon]

Hi...I've been lurking for a few weeks. I feel very lucky to have stumbled upon this community. A little bit about myself; I'm not a Math Prof., I never studied logic or statistics. My brother bit off that end of the genetics-stick. I do however have a passion for bj. I understand basic strategy, and enjoy the process (even through the losses). I'm not quite at the rote-recitation level yet.

Obviously, I'm the guy that you guys are NOT; the ploppie (new term for me) who thinks he knows something. But I'm doing my best to be an educated player. That said, I'm not going to be a "lifer". I've got a decent desk job and it pays the rent. I can have Grifter fantasies till my eyes bleed though .

Now, I've done a lot of reading, and up until I found this place, it seemed to me that the counters were playing for comps. They were keeping a low profile, making intentional mistakes, trying to play as few hands per hour as possible in order to abuse the casino's built in comp-schedule. Live like a fat cat in a comped suite, and eat free lobster. The goal was to break even and play 9 hours at a table. Everything I read said, even counting, you can't make money at BJ unless you have a single deck with good rules, and those don't exist anymore. And even if you could make money...you wouldn't want to cause you'd get barred.

But now I find a group of people who, for what ever reason, sound smart and serious, and who don't advocate that kind of playing at all. The story I'm hearing here is that comps are secondary, table play should be limited to one hour blocks, and that basic strategy alone is a losing game.

and the trouble is...I believe it.

So...where does this leave the fellow like me? I make it to Vegas once a month if I can...I don't like California casinos because the nearest one to me plays 22 (!!) instead of 21. Are the two strategies simply a question of intent? A measure of dedication to the Game? Or can I, the weekender, utilize the theories and strategies here to my advantage?

Thanks all for the great info, particularly Mayor. Great articles/essays/examples.

Cheers

 

[learning to count]

All the great counters were ploppies at one time or another. Memorize basic strategy until it is instinct. Learn a count. I would suggest KO Blackjack because it is simple. Read Read Read. And play play play low stakes at first and then move up. Keep asking questions and communicate. It will come. If you continue to play BJ and lose then you are a ploppy. If you improve your self by leraning basic strategy you are a BS player and when you learn to count you become an advantage player. This is evolution. Take advantage of the advantage. LTC

 

[Hinoon]

Seems like I'm a BS player at this stage then.

I typically break even, with most of my outings to Vegas leaving me up by a handful of units. Of course, understanding a bit of the statistics...I don't really chalk that up to skill, but rather to the fact that I'm "playing the game" correctly.

 

[Abraham de Moivre]

If you are going to Las Vegas once a month, then you are certainly playing enough for counting to be profitable to you. Think of it as a hobby that pays you very well. Also, with such frequent trips, and armed with some knowledge, you can seek out some of the excellent games offered in Vegas.

 

[The Mayor]

Greetings

I really love this comment in your post:

"and the trouble is...I believe it."

Yes, believe it! Single deck is a nearly impossible game to beat, the pit watches it so closely and there are only a couple of venues that you quickly burn out. If you want to play A LOT of blackjack, you have to go to multi-deck games. The great thing is, they are easier to beat that Single Deck!

For example, if you play the great shoe games in Vegas, you can wait in the wings until the shoe is in your favor, thus having the luxury of only making bets when the odds are in your favor! Tell me, is that great, or what?

The strongest teams, the strongest players, the shuffle trackers, the sequencers, all attack the shoes.

But for a pure thrill ride, there's nothing like a few hours of single deck

--Mayor

 

[Hinoon]

Re: Greetings

Most of all, I think I enjoy the sheer amount that there is to learn about this game. You can play craps or roulette any way you want, but past learning the fundamentals, nothing will give you any increase in advantage. With Blackjack, I'm always improving, always learning.

I'd love a simple breakdown of the most common phrases/strategies that are employed. (As if you don't have enough to do already). I don't have access to the books yet, so it's taken me a bit of time to figure out what people mean when they talk about Wonging. (that's leaving or entering a table depending on the count, right?) No need to go into detail...just an overview.

Now, as for multi-deck shoes being advantageous because you can enter at a high count....wouldn't watching a game without betting draw heat? I've gotten a friendly, "move along or put money on the table." at a $3 table after watching a friend play for two minutes. I suppose that's where the MIT system comes into play.

OK, enough thinking out loud for now, since all of this is probably old hat and obvious to the vast majority out there.

cheers.

 

[Slowhand]

You will find players out there who follow both philosophies, depending on their intent. Personally, I started out as you did, trying to decide which was the current more valid approach. The answer is to use the one that works best for your situation. I now play both at the green and at the black tables, depending on what casino I am in, and what my mood is. I take every comp I can get, and now usually stay and eat for free. Many other players prefer to remain unknown, playing short sessions and never using a players card. You will find a wealth of insight and opinion on this site and other bj sites that will help you tailor your approach.
Good Luck
Slowhand

 

[Theef]

Re: Greetings

This is new and very interesting to me. I knew single deck was not generally an option for serious players, but I had thought that double deck, not the shoe, was de rigeur instead. I imagined pros only resorted to shoes when they absolutely had to, for instance, when they were burning out even the double deck. I thought a six deck player, even with "Schlesinger-perfect Wonging" (a term I just made up to denote the optimal Wonging technique described in BJA), couldn't get the SCORE of a play-all 1-12 double deck player.

I suppose if you have a huge bankroll (or team bankroll) you can make bets at shoe games that exceed what you could get away with at double deck, and you can make up for the SCORE deficit that way. Is that what you meant? Or does your advice apply to green chippers and below as well?