A "rare" finding

[Pascual]

On my trip to Colombia I found this casino with the following rules:

-Dealer hits soft 17
-Early Surrender Allowed, yes, you could surrender any hand against an Ace
-No Hole Card
-DAS on any hand allowed
-Ace Split allowed, with the interesting fact that you could ask for more than one card after you split those Aces.
-6 Decks with 80% percent penetration, yup, just one deck left behind consistently
-I don't know if this is common practice, but you could ask the dealer to give you a 1-to-1 payoff for your natural blackjack if he was showing either an Ace or a Ten.

I think that's it. Is this a good game?
I played there 4 times, came out a winner 3 times and the fourth time I lost 20% of what I had accumulated.

 

[zengrifter]

Is this a good game?.

Yes, by today's standards this is an excellent game. zg

 

[violentkun]

On my trip to Colombia I found this casino with the following rules:

-Dealer hits soft 17

* It's to the house advantage to hit a soft 17.

-Early Surrender Allowed, yes, you could surrender any hand against an Ace

* Good. This is crazy good.

-No Hole Card

* No comment

-DAS on any hand allowed

* Good.

-Ace Split allowed, with the interesting fact that you could ask for more than one card after you split those Aces.

* Good.

-6 Decks with 80% percent penetration, yup, just one deck left behind consistently

* not into card counting.

-I don't know if this is common practice, but you could ask the dealer to give you a 1-to-1 payoff for your natural blackjack if he was showing either an Ace or a Ten.

* Say no to it. You are beting half your bet on whether he will get a blackjack or not. 3.8% house advantage if an Ace is shown. The house advantage increased if he was just showing a Ten (Chances of dealer blackjack is less than 8%. You shall be offered 10/1 instead, not 2/1)

Yes, by today's standards this is an excellent game. zg

On the contary you are WRONG. Hit on Soft 17 is enough to ruin you. Get out of that casino.

 

[violentkun]

Lets add on to the Hit Soft 17 thingy.

Soft 17 is nothing, it can only win those busted players. And those busted players had already paid you.

Hitting on a soft 17, you will have 36.9% chance to remain 17.

14.1% to REDUCE VALUE to BUST.

It has 49% to increase value to 18,19,20,21

If you are a player now and you see the dealer hit on soft 17. You must be disappointed.

if you had busted, it doesnt matter you.
if you had a 17, you are supposed to push the bet but now u are facing a 49% chance to lose, a 37% chance to remain pushed, and only 14% to win the game. Trust me for a 1-pay-1 game, i will rather i am pushed.
if you had 18 and above, you are supposed to collect money but now you have to worry about what card the dealer hit. sad.

Only if you are 16 and below, you may smile for a few second. But trust me the outcome will most likely be the same that you lose. The dealer only got 14% chance of busting. And also depend whether the dealer Face Card was an Ace or a 6. If it was an Ace, those basic strategy player will not stand at 16 and below.
Thus not much player can benefit from Dealer hit on Soft 17.

 

[E-town-guy]

Quote:
Originally Posted by zengrifter
Yes, by today's standards this is an excellent game. zg



On the contary you are WRONG. Hit on Soft 17 is enough to ruin you. Get out of that casino.

Violentkun you are the one who is completely wrong. Though Hitting soft 17 works against the player. The penetration and especially the early surrender make it a very good game. I can calculate the casinos edge if necessary but off the top of my head hitting soft 17 give the casino an additional 0.2% while the early surrender adds about 0.65% edge to the player.

 

[violentkun]

Great. You are right! Thanks for pointing it out. I made a mistake. It's early surrender, not late surrender. A late surrender to any card option only give player a 0.09 edge, yes i do believe an early surrender is much more helpful, it is something like free insurance.

Given an option early surrender, i will even surrender a 17. Does this option outweight the hit on soft 17? This is something i will try work on. i am curious to know too. i will try compute the exact house edge based on the occurance of such situation, based on the optimal choice of what to surrender and what not to and mimick a same situation but without surrendering and player stand on 17.



Can u surrender againt a 10,9,8 in that casino?

 

[zengrifter]

Great. You are right! Thanks for pointing it out. I made a mistake. It's early surrender, not late surrender. A late surrender to any card option only give player a 0.09 edge, yes i do believe an early surrender is much more helpful, it is something like free insurance.

Given an option early surrender, i will even surrender a 17. Does this option outweight the hit on soft 17? This is something i will try work on. i am curious to know too. i will try compute the exact house edge based on the occurance of such situation, based on the optimal choice of what to surrender and what not to and mimick a same situation but without surrendering and player stand on 17.

I thought you knew correct basic strategy~! zg

 

[violentkun]

I thought you knew correct basic strategy~! zg

argh. Seriously, i didnt know there's a thing call Early Surrender exist til now. I just learnt blackjack less than 2 weeks. dont tease my ignorance :laugh: i am more focused on the maths than the game itself. trust me one day u will find me helpful!! Everyone is following other people BS blindly. Some of the BS is not even correct optimised. For example... Shall you Double a 11 against a 10? My computer say no. Anyone agree with me? I will start a new thread regarding this.

I also invented a Card Counting system which is REALLY USEFUL EVEN FOR THOSE CRITICS like me.

 

[E-town-guy]

argh. Seriously, i didnt know there's a thing call Early Surrender exist til now. I just learnt blackjack less than 2 weeks. dont tease my ignorance :laugh: i am more focused on the maths than the game itself. trust me one day u will find me helpful!! Everyone is following other people BS blindly. Some of the BS is not even correct optimised. For example... Shall you Double a 11 against a 10? My computer say no. Anyone agree with me? I will start a new thread regarding this.

I also invented a Card Counting system which is REALLY USEFUL EVEN FOR THOSE CRITICS like me.

You learned blackjack less than two weeks ago and you've already invented a card counting system? Wow.

Also BS says to double 11vs10 unless you're playing ENHC.

 

[Pascual]

Can u surrender againt a 10,9,8 in that casino?

Yes, you can surrender against a 10, 9, and 8. For that matter, you can surrender against any card the dealer is showing.

 

[SystemsTrader]

This is an incredible game. I'm not sure how the no hole card affects the game but I estimate the basic strategy player has a .07 edge over the casino. The early surrender is what provides the advantage. I didn't think any casinos still offered early surrender.

 

[tribute]

For all the discussion about hitting soft 17, I thought the question was about the DEALER's requirement to either stand on or hit the soft 17. The PLAYER SHOULD hit a soft 17 or, even double down on it, at the proper time. Also, when choosing a game, it is better to play where the dealer STANDS on soft 17, but the difference is not so bad as to "make me leave", right? I thought most DD games in Vegas are (dealer) Hit soft 17.

 

[Mikeaber]

Tribute, in a game where the Edge is presented in terms of a number less than 1%, I would say that a .2% difference is significant. "Enough to Leave?" Up to you of course but it does make a difference.

Do the DD games in Vegas mostly have dealers hitting soft-17? Statistically, my guess (and it IS a guess) is that most do H-17. It is getting harder to find DD where the dealer stands though there are a few.