AC player to hit up Vegas

[Ferretnparrot]

Yo, so iv never been to vegas, but what little information i know about blackjack in vegas is that SUPPOSEDLY its a hell of a lot better than atlantic city, i know this mainly because atlantic city offers quite possibly the worst games imaginable except for the promotional 4 deck games on 4 tables only at the tropicana. Iv won enough money to finance a trip and still bring a boatload of money to play with but my main question is is there an abundance of s17 4-6 deck games 10,15,25 tables with midshoe entry allowed? is there a "STANDARD" game such as in atlantic city that will be found at at least one table in almost every casino?

Bottom line, when i get there, planning to attack shoe games, am i gogin to be able to find more than say 10 places to play at with a good s17 4-6 deck shoe?

Can somebody fill me in, and maybe list some good locations so i can program them into my gps when i get there.

 

[SystemsTrader]

Get yourself a copy of CBJN, it will answer all of your rules questions at which casinos. While Vegas is better than AC it is not the promise land it once was. Expect mainly 6D H17 shoe games on the strip. But many of those 6D games are being replaced with 8D H17. The heat is pretty high in Vegas as well so play a hit and run style of game. There still is 6D S17 games but they are becoming rare on the main floors. You will find some casinos have LS and some games have RSA so memorize your surrender plays, its a valuable rule. There are also some good DD games but the heat is very high on most of those games so be aware.

 

[Diver]

A strong second for getting a copy of CBJN. Use the spreadsheet format to sort according to number of decks, advantage and penetration. There a plenty of DD games with good rules and penetration. Look for opportunities even at the high end stores for minimums to be lowered in the morning hours until 10-12 a.m.

 

[shadroch]

I'm not aware of any four deck games in Vegas proper.
Wizard of Odds has a decent list of games, but CBJN is worth the cash if you need to find a particular game.

 

[Randyk47]

We've been to about 8 Vegas casinos in two trips over a 90-day period which includes just this past week. I've seen no shoes below 6 decks with most being 8 deck shoes. The few 6 deck shoes I've seen were in Paris, Mirage and MGM, and I stress "seen", as they were high-roller black chip tables. Also the only tables I saw this past visit where it was stand on all 17's. Many casinos are limiting mid-shoe entry but mostly by limiting the amount that can be bet. At Paris and MGM it was something like $500. There are a number of double deck tables, particularly at the smaller places, but those were all 6/5 tables except for a couple of green tables.

 

[Diver]

Cbjn

We've been to about 8 Vegas casinos in two trips over a 90-day period which includes just this past week. I've seen no shoes below 6 decks with most being 8 deck shoes. The few 6 deck shoes I've seen were in Paris, Mirage and MGM, and I stress "seen", as they were high-roller black chip tables. Also the only tables I saw this past visit where it was stand on all 17's. Many casinos are limiting mid-shoe entry but mostly by limiting the amount that can be bet. At Paris and MGM it was something like $500. There are a number of double deck tables, particularly at the smaller places, but those were all 6/5 tables except for a couple of green tables.

You've missed a lot of good 6D and DD games at much lower minimums than you inidicated. But they're in other venues than Paris and MGM. And that's not even accounting for the lower minimums during slack periods based on player volume. Again, CBJN is very good resource in assessing the LV scene.

 

[Randyk47]

Most probably right. I noticed a big difference in the variety of tables even within the same casinos over a 90-day period. Obviously the first part of Thanksgiving week is not a high volume time even under the best of economic conditions so the casinos were running lower limits on most days almost 24 hours a day. When we went the first time I was pooped from going to casino to casino to find the best all around playing and staying conditions. Didn't do that so much this time and really stayed in the heart of the Strip as this trip was more about playing and relaxing than exploration. We haven't gone downtown on either visit. I did play one round of DD lower limit at Ballys but the dealer was just on a run and I pulled out after 8 straight brutal hands and $100+ loss. My son pressed on with her and lost even more. Just one of those things that happens even when the count was to our favor.

 

[Ferretnparrot]

Is midshoe entry allowed often on higher limit tables? i recal playing at a 100 dollar table in a river boat casino that allowed me to jump in whenever i felt like it.

Also, surrender is something i have almost entirely forgot about, i would have to view an h17 game with surrender as far more valuable than the same game s17 without surrender even though the house edge is very similer, simply because i predict there is great value in surrender index plays, and likely a reduction in variance, is there a sisable number of h17 shoe games with surrender available?

 

[Randyk47]

Most shoe tables allowed mid-shoe entry but limited the gross amount you could bet. The limit was typically $500, way over my wallet, so I never paid attention to that and sat down whenever I felt like it. As I said I played mostly at Paris, MGM, and a little at Ballys. I know for sure Paris and MGM allowed surrender on their H17 shoe games because I saw more people surrendering than I've ever seen before and that was $10 players to $500 players. (Yes....actually played at a $15 table with a guy who would run his bets from $15 to $2,500. The casino was watching him like a hawk but he kept losing so they didn't do much about it. They actually apologized to us as he was a bit weird too....tried to pay us not to play hands a couple of times.)

 

[rukus]

Is midshoe entry allowed often on higher limit tables? i recal playing at a 100 dollar table in a river boat casino that allowed me to jump in whenever i felt like it.

Also, surrender is something i have almost entirely forgot about, i would have to view an h17 game with surrender as far more valuable than the same game s17 without surrender even though the house edge is very similer, simply because i predict there is great value in surrender index plays, and likely a reduction in variance, is there a sisable number of h17 shoe games with surrender available?

plenty h17 games around with LS that allow mid shoe entry. get a copy of cbjn to map out which casinos have which rules. it really is worth the $13 or whatever it costs if you are not in vegas often.

 

[standard toaster]

I'm not aware of any four deck games in Vegas proper.
Wizard of Odds has a decent list of games, but CBJN is worth the cash if you need to find a particular game.

i just stayed at the strat and they have 4 deckers

 

[shadroch]

They actually apologized to us as he was a bit weird too....tried to pay us not to play hands a couple of times.)[/QUOTE]


Okay, I've got to ask this.
You are there to make money,right? So what is weirder? Someone offering you money to not play a hand or someone refusing said offer?

 

[shadroch]

i just stayed at the strat and they have 4 deckers

Really? That must be fairly new. Thanks for the update.Were the rules decent?

 

[Randyk47]

Well, we didn't take his money so I guess in some ways that's weird and maybe a mistake. Yes, I want to win and winning means "making money" but somehow I'd rather do it through play. Quite frankly we used the situation gracefully to make some connections with a couple of the pit bosses and it worked. Just one of those things, trade off immediate gain for establishing a potentially better relationship with the casino personnel just seemed to make more sense at the time.

 

[Diver]

Really? That must be fairly new. Thanks for the update.Were the rules decent?

I didn't notice any 4D games there last week, but I might have mistakenly thought they were 6D since my attention was on getting to a DD table which kept me content.

 

[standard toaster]

I didn't notice any 4D games there last week, but I might have mistakenly thought they were 6D since my attention was on getting to a DD table which kept me content.

I couldent find any double deckers go figure.

 

[Randyk47]

I think tracking specific tables at casinos is a risky business. Short of the tables set up for the auto-shufflers (takes an extension to most tables) my observation is that casinos go with the flow and can change a table or set of tables to any deck count or denomination in literally seconds. I can say for sure that Ballys had two double-deck green tables right across from the cashier last week. Had a drink with a friend last night who just came back yesterday from Vegas and Ballys and he confirmed as of Sunday night those two tables were still up and running. Will they be next week? Probably but who knows. I suppose I should get CBJN before my next visit as I sure don't have the time or energy to run all over town looking for exactly the right table.

 

[Blue Efficacy]

I think tracking specific tables at casinos is a risky business. Short of the tables set up for the auto-shufflers (takes an extension to most tables) my observation is that casinos go with the flow and can change a table or set of tables to any deck count or denomination in literally seconds. I can say for sure that Ballys had two double-deck green tables right across from the cashier last week. Had a drink with a friend last night who just came back yesterday from Vegas and Ballys and he confirmed as of Sunday night those two tables were still up and running. Will they be next week? Probably but who knows. I suppose I should get CBJN before my next visit as I sure don't have the time or energy to run all over town looking for exactly the right table.

That may be true for some casinos. But most casinos I go to have set games for set tables. The discard trays are usually permanently mounted.. that's how I quickly find my 4D games is by looking at the discard trays.

 

[Randyk47]

How does the discard tray for a four-deck look any different than a six-deck or eight-deck? Granted I didn't go around and look at each tray but my impression was they're all about the same. I did notice that single and double deck tables have smaller trays but that's about it.

 

[SleightOfHand]

How does the discard tray for a four-deck look any different than a six-deck or eight-deck? Granted I didn't go around and look at each tray but my impression was they're all about the same. I did notice that single and double deck tables have smaller trays but that's about it.

I guess you need to work on your deck estimation skills? From what I've seen, 6D games have 6D trays, 4D has 4D trays, etc.