Ace Side Count??

[MrSmith]

Is there any benefit for me to keep an Ace side count? I currently use KO and I've been keeping a side count of 7's for my partner, who uses Hi-Lo, when we play together. That way we can pass the RC to each other mid-shoe. (nobody would change their count. ) I've been doing this for several months now and I find it very easy. It's almost second nature at this point so I really don't mind.

When I play solo I would like to keep an Ace side count if there is any benefit. I've searched the web and this site but I can't find anything useful. Can someone point me in the right direction or am I wasting my time? At the very least I would like to read as much about the benefits as possible. Thanks.

 

[tthree]

ace side count

Yes. Your bet increase in a positive situation is largely due to an increase in blackjack frequency. If aces are depleted rather than increased in this situation it indicates lots of tens but not as many aces. Stronger for playing your hands but weaker for increasing your bet(not as many blackjacks).

Certain playing decisions are influenced by ace density. Ace density weighs heavily toward doubling 10 v (T or A) for one. Others are splitting 99 v (2,7,8,9 or A), 88 v T;doubling soft 18 v (2 or 5), and 11 v 9; hitting soft 18 v 8, 13 v 6, and 12 v 4. Most people only worry about the doubles and splits.

Any count can benefit from an ace side count.

 

[zengrifter]

Is there any benefit for me to keep an Ace side count? I currently use KO

Virtually NONE due to the Ace being reckoned in main count.
Waste of time and brain-power. zg

 

[NightStalker]

definitely it's a plus

Virtually NONE due to the Ace being reckoned in main count.
Waste of time and brain-power. zg

you can increase the playing efficiency by SC Aces to get better PE than ace-neutral systems..

 

[kewljason]

Virtually NONE due to the Ace being reckoned in main count.
Waste of time and brain-power. zg

I keep a side count of aces mainly when I play DD, mostly because it is just so easy to do. I don't do an aweful lot with that info except extreme situations because in is already incorporated into my main count, but if I get under a deck to play and there are still 6 or 7 aces, I raise my wager even if the overall count is neutral. You are saying there is no advantage in that? I realize that for the overall count to be neutral with a surplus of aces, probably means 10 values are slightly depleted, but since 10 values make up such a high percent of cards, there is still ample to draw a snapper and at 150% payoff, isn't that an advantageous situation?

 

[tthree]

Virtually NONE due to the Ace being reckoned in main count.
Waste of time and brain-power. zg

Side counting aces is really quite easy. Just need to practice. The fewer number of decks the quicker an ace reckoned count can give you bad bet sizing information. As I pointed out the ace reckoned count 's stronger BC over ace neutral counts is ONLY due to the ability to flag increases in BJ frequency. But ace reckoned counts can mislead you by making you think there is an increased likelihood of blackjack when there isnt.

Consider the example of a single deck game and the first hand burns all four aces and lots of low cards but no ten value cards. The ace reckoned count indicates a high likelihood of a blackjack. But an ace neutral with ace side count correctly indicates the probability of blackjack is 0%. With this count you also have a far superior PE and IC to ANY ace reckoned count.

To me the only reason not to use an ace neutral with ace side count is if it is beyond your ability. If thats the case just scratch out what advantage you can from an ace reckoned count and hope it is enough. If your brain can handle learning the small degree of extra discipline necessary to side count aces then learn an ace neutral count and side count aces. Then the increase in BC along with the huge increase in PE and IC can be taken right to the bank. This is by making some unplayable games playable and/or through a big increase in EV.

 

[zengrifter]

you can increase the playing efficiency by SC Aces to get better PE than ace-neutral systems..

Fuhgettaboutit! Not worth the effort.
On the other hand, his existing unique sidecount of SEVENS could be used for a tremendous PE increase. zg

 

[MrSmith]

Fuhgettaboutit! Not worth the effort.
On the other hand, his existing unique sidecount of SEVENS could be used for a tremendous PE increase. zg

How can my current side count of sevens be used? Please explain? Link? Thanks.

 

[tthree]

The seven is important in many hand to hand match ups. Most notably, because of frequency, is its removal has more of an effct on dealer busting a ten value card than any other card. On my way out the door. if no one answers by the time I get back I will elaborate.

 

[tthree]

The classic examples are 14, 13, 12 v T.
14 v T has the strongest effect. seven poor decks favor standing.
Dealer 8 or 9 against player 15 or 16 a 7 rich decks favor standing
10 v T a seven poor deck favors doubling.
77 v 8 a 7 rich favor splitting.
33 v 7 a 7 poor deck favors hitting.
12 v 6 a 7 poor deck favors standing.
12 v 4 a 7 poor deck favors standing.
soft 14 v 4 a 7 rich deck favors doubling.
soft 15 v 4 a 7 poor deck favors hitting.
9 v 3 a 7 rich deck favors standing.
soft 16 v 3 a 7 poor deck favors doubling.
soft 17 v 3 a 7 rich deck favors hitting.
soft 18 v 3 a 7 rich deck favors standing.
66 v 3 a 7 rich deck favor hitting.
13 v 2 a 7 rich deck favors hitting.
9 v 2 a 7 poor deck favors doubling.
soft 18 v 2 a 7 poor deck favors doubling.
soft 17 v 2 a 7 poor deck favors doubling.
66 v 2 a 7 poor deck favors splitting.

These are some of the decisions most affected by seven density.

I compiled them fast and there are others that are worth noting. If someone who actually side counts sevens could check these. I side count aces and havent developed the brain discipline for a second side counts yet.

 

[tthree]

I keep a side count of aces mainly when I play DD, mostly because it is just so easy to do. I don't do an aweful lot with that info except extreme situations because in is already incorporated into my main count, but if I get under a deck to play and there are still 6 or 7 aces, I raise my wager even if the overall count is neutral. You are saying there is no advantage in that? I realize that for the overall count to be neutral with a surplus of aces, probably means 10 values are slightly depleted, but since 10 values make up such a high percent of cards, there is still ample to draw a snapper and at 150% payoff, isn't that an advantageous situation?

Nice point. I usually use the flip side to argue for ace reckoned with side count. That at that point you may have no aces left but a positive TC and you bet big not realizing your chance of blackjack is zero. Think about going to an ace neutral count once you are side counting. Big spike in PE and IC.

 

[zengrifter]

I keep a side count of aces mainly when I play DD, mostly because it is just so easy to do. I don't do an aweful lot with that info except extreme situations because in is already incorporated into my main count, but if I get under a deck to play and there are still 6 or 7 aces, I raise my wager even if the overall count is neutral. You are saying there is no advantage in that?

Not really, based on frequency, etc.
BUT if you are watching Aces in 2D its so easy to key them - now you got something. zg

 

[zengrifter]

How can my current side count of sevens be used? Please explain? Link? Thanks.

Start here and focus solely on the 7s. Its called multparameter or bivaluate counting. For 1-2D mostly.
Its an obsolete concept but considerably more powerful than side counting Aces in a Ace-reckoned count. zg

Michael Hall Multiparameter HO1

 

[tthree]

Zg is right about the power of the 7 side count. With ace reckoned with one side count probably better to count the sevens. Ace reckoned need the boost in PE anyway.

 

[BJgenius007]

Virtually NONE due to the Ace being reckoned in main count.
Waste of time and brain-power. zg

Another Zoolander moment.

Ace side count can enhance your play in two important ways. First, if the deck is ace rich, you can increase your bet size (it increase both player and dealer's BJ chance. But players get paid 150% while dealer only 100%.) Second, you can improve your index play dramatically when you have 16 or dealer has 6 upcard.

 

[zengrifter]

Ace side count can enhance your play in two important ways. First, if the deck is ace rich, you can increase your bet size (it increase both player and dealer's BJ chance. But players get paid 150% while dealer only 100%.) Second, you can improve your index play dramatically when you have 16 or dealer has 6 upcard.

Out of context and irrelevant to the OP.

Dare I say it ... :laugh:

 

[tthree]

I thought the OP was about ace side counting. I didnt pick up on the unbalanced count until now.

 

[HockeXpert]

I keep a side count of aces mainly when I play DD, mostly because it is just so easy to do. I don't do an aweful lot with that info except extreme situations because in is already incorporated into my main count, but if I get under a deck to play and there are still 6 or 7 aces, I raise my wager even if the overall count is neutral. You are saying there is no advantage in that? I realize that for the overall count to be neutral with a surplus of aces, probably means 10 values are slightly depleted, but since 10 values make up such a high percent of cards, there is still ample to draw a snapper and at 150% payoff, isn't that an advantageous situation?

KJ:

Your logic usually makes sense but I'm going to disagree with you on this one. Excess aces in a - count means fewer BJ's AND the dealer makes more hands. You stand a greater chance of losing your doubles that include an ace. I think the value of getting an A as the first card diminishes as the count drops.

 

[kewljason]

KJ:

Your logic usually makes sense but I'm going to disagree with you on this one. Excess aces in a - count means fewer BJ's AND the dealer makes more hands. You stand a greater chance of losing your doubles that include an ace. I think the value of getting an A as the first card diminishes as the count drops.

But, I didn't say a negative count. I said, if the count was nuetral, with an excess of aces, I would put out a larger bet than my normal nuetral count wager. If the count was negative, that would fall into the catagory, where I said, most times I do little with the information.

 

[zengrifter]

But, I didn't say a negative count. I said, if the count was nuetral, with an excess of aces, I would put out a larger bet than my normal nuetral count wager. If the count was negative, that would fall into the catagory, where I said, most times I do little with the information.

At the risk of redundancy, I want to emphasize that if you are doing this at 2D, it is not very valuable due to the infrequency of the event... but its a simple addition to note the keycards and bet accordingly, which adds demonstrative value to the excercize and may add a little cover-gambit simultaneously. zg