instead of trying to fly under the radar sometimes the best thing to do is be almost blatant if you tip your dealer well (although you idiots have a strong opposition to this) your dealer will be much more lenient and usually turn a blind eye to your counting and or strategy play...no dealer wants a good tipper to leave...but if you stiff the dealer we will let the floors and pits know and we will look for reasons to get you off the table
advice to all u db's from a seasoned dealer
- Thread starter pigrat
- Start date
Some of us "idiots" absolutely ARE aware of what you're saying, and DO tip the dealers well; for the very reasons you're giving, and for other not-so-obvious reasons. A proper tipping strategy is a very potent weapon that SHOULD be in every AP's bag of tricks.
I have a friend who's an ex pit boss. He tells me that he even used to let most of the smaller betting counters play in his club with relative impunity, as long as they were taking care of his dealers. If they were stiffs, they were backed off. (Of course; not all pit bosses think this way)
I have a friend who's an ex pit boss. He tells me that he even used to let most of the smaller betting counters play in his club with relative impunity, as long as they were taking care of his dealers. If they were stiffs, they were backed off. (Of course; not all pit bosses think this way)
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aslan
Well-Known Member
Most dealers wouldn't recognize a card counter unless he wore a name tag. So you suggest we tip them all (more than we already do) because occasionally we will run into someone savvy like yourself? That doesn't sound like positive EV to me.
Automatic Monkey
Banned
When someone applies for a job at the casino and they're too dumb to wait tables, too lazy to be a janitor, and too sleazy to be a restroom attendant, guess what job they give them.
If you want more tips, start paying pushes and pushing losses.
There's 2 times I tip:
1) when a dealer makes mispays
2) when I'm playing 1 dealer repeatedly over a long time and the game stays good (mostly applies to hole card games). Don't want to piss off the dealers who I play a lot.
Other requirements to have any chance of getting a cent off me:
Have a good attitude. If it's obvious you're the type who's a snitch, you can go **** yourself. In fact, if I had the opportunity to get you fired or make your life otherwise miserable (at no cost to me of course), I wouldn't hesitate to do it. There's nothing more I hate in the world then a snitch.
Looking happy when you beat the table, upset when players win, etc will also disqualify you from tips.
Fortunately most dealers/pits I've encountered have either a neutral-good attitude (Most just don't give a crap, they're there just to collect a paycheck and operate on autopilot most of the time). Most are intelligent enough to realize that tips come from winners, and the money they have in the rack isn't theirs.
Anyone dumb enough to hustle for tips on an online message board clearly doesn't know what they're doing
I'm very surprised that this thread has gotten as far as it has without mention of the point i'm about to address.
OVER TIPPING KILLS COUNTERS!!!
A counter's edge is very very small to begin with, their hourly rate (especially the low stakes counters that you could afford to turn a blind eye too) is hardly worth mentioning. To tip even once a shoe make the game either not worth playing or actually negative depending on the size of the bet.
Next time you see a red chip counter, think to yourself "this guy probably isn't earning much more than me an hour", that might help you accept that despite the fact he bets the occasional pile of greens, he's not getting rich in any sense of the word.
And unlike other tippers, the counter can't afford to tip big simply because he's had a good session - his expected value is base on the aggregate of all of his sessions - so while he may have won $500 this session, the two sessions previous where he lost $125 and $300 have to be taken into account. And that is a crass and overly simplistic example.
Other forms of APers who have higher win rates, which are often related far more closely to dealer behaviour are far more likely to keep you happy but for the most part you're unlikely to know of their presence until they're already being escorted out of the door.
RJT.
UK-21
Well-Known Member
A gnarly toke whore ??
Very good. Could apply to all of those honourable members of the House of Commons who accept "gratuities" for promoting the interests of the various groups that lobby them.
The most recent, of course, was the Duchess of York, who got caught on camera with her knickers around her ankles offering herself and her ex for sale (although it should be noted that the Duke of York knew nothing about the matter).
NightStalker
Well-Known Member
I hate Toke whore, find a better job
If you need tips from counters, work for it::
In short, give us better than normal pen and we'll take care of you. Then also, do not expect share from our winnings. We can only give slight percentage of EV. For black-chipper, expect max of 10dollar per shoe.
But as per my experience, my tokes are never enough for greedy dealers. So, I am better off with no tokes than an ungrateful acceptance of tokes.. Reminds me of an instance where I played one shoe with three plops and toked 35$(~50%EV) after the shoe while coloring up. Dealer has disrespectfully returned my tokes, I was very happy to pick them back..
The hard truth is: We cannot live upto your expectations of a lucky gambler. But we'll come back to you again and again slowly filling up your bags...
Good luck on the tables
If you need tips from counters, work for it::
- Give better pen: Say standard is 1.5/6, try giving 1/6..
- Speed up the game..
In short, give us better than normal pen and we'll take care of you. Then also, do not expect share from our winnings. We can only give slight percentage of EV. For black-chipper, expect max of 10dollar per shoe.
But as per my experience, my tokes are never enough for greedy dealers. So, I am better off with no tokes than an ungrateful acceptance of tokes.. Reminds me of an instance where I played one shoe with three plops and toked 35$(~50%EV) after the shoe while coloring up. Dealer has disrespectfully returned my tokes, I was very happy to pick them back..
The hard truth is: We cannot live upto your expectations of a lucky gambler. But we'll come back to you again and again slowly filling up your bags...
Good luck on the tables
I won't paint with as broad a brush as some here. But the trouble with this view is that far too many dealers have a hugely exaggerated idea of the amount of tipping that's appropriate. They think that every winner should tip a healthy percentage of his win. But even the best card counter is going to lose almost as many sessions as he wins. There's this thing called variance that leads to occasional large wins that are completely out of proportion to expectation. A counter who tips enough to meet the desires of the dealers I'm talking about will be tipping away far more than his expectation. It's the considered opinion of many experienced players that it's impossible to keep dealers satisfied by tipping.
In reality, a dealer who got $2 in tips from every player he encountered during a shift would probably do just fine. But the trouble is, a huge number of players tip nothing, the majority of the tips come from a small number of players, and some dealers develop the attitude that anyone who doesn't tip way above the average is a cheapskate.
A dealer pushed your tip BACK to you? What?
Where the hell was this? I never heard of a dealer rejecting a tip, let alone a $35 one, which is pretty big. That's what, 7 times their base salary per hour?
I have to agree with NightStalker, if you want more tips, do something and you'll get them. Had a friendly dealer this past weekend that was either super lazy and didn't want to shuffle or knew I was counting and started cutting off only a half a deck out of 6 decks after a couple shoes. Needless to say they got tipped very well from that point on.
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blackjacktilt
Well-Known Member
Jack_Black
Well-Known Member
I agree with everything posted in this thread, EXCEPT the OP.
MIGHT is the key word here, sabre. I was in a sweaty town with several low limit casinos, dealers kept their own tips, and I tipped what I could, and I still got checks play, "BJ ON MAX BET!!" and the ilk. even right after I tipped a dealer, this jackass told the PC that I always win, with the insinuation that I must be doing something other than being lucky. Another dealer that I regularly tip, I heard him yell out as plain as day from about 30 feet away. "How long has that ****ing counter been sitting there?!?" to his PC and several other dealers. I have now stopped tipping in that town, with the exception of one dealer who I know was told to pref shuffle on me whenever I raised my bet, but never did.
If I was to take their side, I should understand that there is very little gambling traffic coming through that town, and any skilled player would wipe the theoretical hold they have on the little revenue that is coming in, but I'm not taking their side, after all, it is still a customer service related business. and the customer is king!!!
TAKE NOTE TO EVERYTHING YOU READ ON THIS THREAD PIGRAT. what a suiting name for a toke whore such as yourself.
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Lonesome Gambler
Well-Known Member
Look at this guy on here, calling everyone douchebags and idiots. First off, tipping debates aside, dealers are not the most important person to have on your side. For counters, sure, a dealer can tip off the pit. Big deal! If the dealer can make the play, so can the pit. Play a different shift, play a different casino, whatever. If you tip (and I like to tip dealers with pleasant attitudes, and no, I don't tip away my EV), make sure you're tipping only a portion of your EV that you're comfortable with. It's very easy to erase your edge by tipping, but that doesn't mean you have to be a stiff.
For players that have a bigger edge and can afford more tipping (if desired), you have even less to worry about from the almighty dealer. Why? Because if they could make your play, you wouldn't be playing with them! In other words, if they were able to make the play and the conditions remained the same, potential collusion becomes a factor and you shouldn't be playing there anyway. If the conditions remain the same, it's usually because the dealer doesn't know your strategy.
Personally, I treat tipping as a business expense. If a dealer is nice and pleasant to play with, I want to show my gratitude; I want to keep them happy. I generally don't tip unpleasant dealers unless I have a very good reason to do so. But remember, tipping only goes so far with dealers, and they're not as powerful an adversary to the AP as some of them think they are.
For players that have a bigger edge and can afford more tipping (if desired), you have even less to worry about from the almighty dealer. Why? Because if they could make your play, you wouldn't be playing with them! In other words, if they were able to make the play and the conditions remained the same, potential collusion becomes a factor and you shouldn't be playing there anyway. If the conditions remain the same, it's usually because the dealer doesn't know your strategy.
Personally, I treat tipping as a business expense. If a dealer is nice and pleasant to play with, I want to show my gratitude; I want to keep them happy. I generally don't tip unpleasant dealers unless I have a very good reason to do so. But remember, tipping only goes so far with dealers, and they're not as powerful an adversary to the AP as some of them think they are.
HockeXpert
Well-Known Member
BINGO! We have a winner. Why would any of us tip unless we are getting something beneficial in return? We are not eating out at our favorite restaurant and want to waited on. We are at work and we expect SOMETHING in return.
Pitwhore:
You want a tip? Give me something I can work with. Flash me the next card.:laugh: Our tips are commensurate with your performance as it relates to our business.
blackchipjim
Well-Known Member
tips?
The gist of this thread I take it is to solicit tips for being allowed to play at an advantage. Sounds to me like you are a poor dealer with no social skills and your toke box shows it. If you start to rat out fellow dealers and stab them in the back a few times maybe just maybe they will see you pit material and you reach the pinnacle of your career. Most good dealers make tips by courteous manners and being accurate on pays with no atittude shown to players.I know dealers that know I'm a counter and they could care less tip them you bet they know me and it's enjoyable. Go back to personality school and get one.
The gist of this thread I take it is to solicit tips for being allowed to play at an advantage. Sounds to me like you are a poor dealer with no social skills and your toke box shows it. If you start to rat out fellow dealers and stab them in the back a few times maybe just maybe they will see you pit material and you reach the pinnacle of your career. Most good dealers make tips by courteous manners and being accurate on pays with no atittude shown to players.I know dealers that know I'm a counter and they could care less tip them you bet they know me and it's enjoyable. Go back to personality school and get one.
moo321
Well-Known Member
Exactly! Most people who work for tips are extremely greedy, and get very pissy if they're getting even slightly below average tips. I honestly don't think any of them do the math:
Hmm: 6 people at my table, everyone tips $2 an hour, and I get minimum wage. That's 12+7= $19 an hour!
Now, I'm the first to get on here and call any counter who doesn't tip a degenerate stiff. You're an asshole if you don't tip and you make the rest of us look bad. On the other hand, I don't think that tipping $2 an hour is unfair.
It's my understanding that a BJ dealer's tip split at a typical resort casino might be about $20 an hour. At say, a 4-handed table, if an AP tips $5 an hour overall, I'd say he's doing his part.
I also believe the bulk of this $5/hour should be bunched together and paid out in bigger chunks right after a burst of big bets that yielded a profitable shoe.