Atlantic City

B

BAMA21

Well-Known Member
I'll be making my first ever trip to Atlantic City at the end of this month. I think it will just be a day trip on a Monday. I am wondering if anyone has any tips or recommendations on places I should definitely go or places I should definitely avoid. Any advice on what to expect on table minimums and maximums, game rules, staff hospitality, service, food and drinks, etc would be greatly appreciated.

Also, please see my post on the "Blackjack Variations" board about Double Attack Blackjack, which I understand is being offered there. Any advice on that would be appreciated as well.

My intent with this trip is mostly to check out some of the casinos and some of the games for possible future trips. I have a general impression that the games are difficult because of the eight deck shoes, and that the tables are all expensive all the time. I'm pretty much a blackjack (or other 21) player only; and I'd prefer lower minimums.
 
BAMA 21 Try the BORGATA that is one of the only places that have 6 shoe games still in atlantic city about 80% penetration. 10-15$ hands hard to find a 5$ game but if anyplace has it its probly there. The Tropicana has similer rules I think. All no mid shoe entry. I beleave one of the trump casinos also has 6 deck shoes but unless your a high roller (which I am not) you shouldnt go there (minumum bet is like 25-50 buckaroos). As far as I know double deck and (single deck) no longer exist in the Atlantic City Vocabulary, unless you bring a friend and practice in the hotel, make sure the pit bosses dont catch you though.
 
Thanks, Chris. I'm not a high roller either. I do bet larger sums from time to time; but I like to start as low as possible. I'll be there on what should be a slower time; but I'm not expecting the $5 table to be easy to come by. Hopefully, however, I can find enough $10 and $15 tables to spend the day playing. I'll definitely check out the Borgata.
 
BAMA21 said:
I'm pretty much a blackjack (or other 21) player only; and I'd prefer lower minimums.
Click to expand...

The Sands offers $5 minimum tables in their Poker/Simulcast room on the fourth floor. They also have $10 tables on their casino floor.
 
Borgata is a very nice casino to visit, but you will be hard pressed to find any BJ tables lower than $15 (usually one table jam packed). The majority of the tables are $25 and $50 tables (during the weekend). As for deck penetration, it is not that great. I have seen some dealer cut 2 1/4 decks out of 6 (you do the math) and others cut 1 1/2 - 2 decks.

Try Harrah's and Merv's, you should be able to find some $10 tables...
 
Hey BAMA do you think you could post your details on this board when you get back---because I am two hours away from Atlantic city and would like to know For my next trip up. If you find any five dollar tables I would be particularly interested....but also any ten dollar tables. If you would be so kind.
 
Absolutely. I'm going on the 29th with the plan of staying all day and hitting several casinos. I'll file a report when I get back.
 
I'm back. You can see all of the gory details in some of my other posts; but I wanted to answer specifically here the questions that were raised in this thread.

I never made it as far as the Sands; and I didn't even attempt to go to the Borgata. We went on a bus; and we had a choice of casinos to get off the bus at. Each of the casinos offer a different packahge of inducements to get you to stop there. Our choices were the Tropicana, which gave out $16 in cash, the Sands, which gave out $22 in comp credit, and the Showboat, which gave out $22 in cash. Since we didn't have a Sands card yet, we picked the Showboat as the one giving out the most.

If I go again, I'll know more about how to do it. I think next time I'd get off at the Tropicana and then try to get back on at the Showboat. The 45 minutes it took us to get from the Tropicana, to the Sands, and then finally to the Showboat were the longest minutes of the day. Or I might do the Sands to get off next time.

Anyway, we got off at the Showboat, got our Players' Club cards, and then hit the floor at around Noon. They had several $10 tables at that point; and one or two of them had a single empty seat. There were some $15 tables being played, and one that was ready to be opened. Since I was playing with my wife's friend on her first ever trip to a casino, we opted for the $15 table where we could both play comfortably.

After I got wiped out quickly, I found a $10 Double Attack table, where I played for a good while. I was back in the Showboat at around 6:00 PM; and there were still $10 tables at that point in regular blackjack (eight decks), Double Attack, Single-Deck (6:5), and Spanish 21, which I played.

During the afternoon, I was in the Taj and Resorts, both short walks from the Showboat; and both had $10 tables

If this day was typical, I'd say that the places I went probably have $10 tables on weekdays for pretty much the whole day. As crowded as it was when the bus arrived, I doubt they have any $5 tables anytime at all; but if they do, it would have to be pretty early in the morning.

I heard that the Sands has $5 tables; and I think that was pointed out on this thread; but I didn't get there. Next time, if there is a next time, I plan to go there very early in the day to check it out.

Nobody was playing six-deck shoes on the low minimum tables. All were 8-deck shoes that I saw and played. They were cutting off at least two of those as well. In all games, in all places, it appears that the dealer stands on all 17s, so that is in your favor. However, any thought of finding surrender should be banished from your head, at least from what I saw.

The dealers were pretty good, for the most part. I didn't see a lot of tipping going on though. In general, I didn't find the atmosphere to be as relaxed or as fun as in Vegas or some of the other places I've been.

I did encounter a situation with one of the dealers who shorted me twice on pay-outs, and probably did a third time as well. I thought I noticed that he'd shorted me $5 on a $20 payout; but I didn't notice until I had moved all of the chips. So instead of trying to question it then, I juist watched more closely. Sure enough, he shorted me a stack on a dounle-down pay-out a bit later, and then did the same thing again another time. For some reason that I can't explain, I didn't feel as "secure" in these places as in Vegas.

Comps were pretty good there. Resorts was running a "lose $100 get $100" slot promotion that pays back $1000 of your losses when you sign up for the card. Showboat gave me about $40 in comps for my blackjack play (an hour or so at about $40 a hand.)

That is about it. I'd be happy to answer any questions if I can.
 
BAMA

Im trying to come up with a plan of attack for Atlantic City...
but if thats the case everywhere I think ill stay home and hustle my buddys.

so no six deck $10 games? no late surrender anywhere?

The days I was planning to go would be the down days like Monday and Tuesdays, ill probly have more luck then as for finding a six deck game .

The BJ insider said this month about Borgatta...

"Sexy waitresses all over the place. Hotel/casino rating is A. Good news is an all 6-deck casino. Penetration is now 75 to 85 percent. High roller room is 6-decks with no mid-shoe entry. Plenty of $10 and $15 games in the main casino"

I hope I dont get sued now.

anyway,
I was hoping you could confirm this... but if this is not the case I think i will just jump off the Tropicana, and just throw my chips off the balcony when I arive. This would probly be the most effective solution to these type of rules.

Is The 8 deck shoes mid entry?

If it is maybe I could just backcount for chump change, instead of play all in a six decker as they are most likely no mid deck entry. If the rules are that bad I could really care less if they kicked me out for no Camouflage. Or maybe I should just take a can of gasoline and burn....ARGGGHHH nevermind ill stop Whining.

I hope you had a good time,
CHRIS
 
Chris, I entered mid-shoe a couple of times with no problem; and saw others doing the same. I can't speak for all the casinos; but that was the case at the joints I hit. I can't confirm about the Borgata. It is a good distance away; and I ended up being a lot slower than I thought I'd be on this trip. If your info is right, I should definitekly try to make it that far next time.

I had planned to seperate from my wife and her friend for the day; and I was just going to kinda hit and run at several places. However, the way things went, and with her friend wanting to play some too, I ended up just moving a bit slower and staying close enough to them that we could stay somewhat together.

Based on what I've read and what I saw in person, I think I'd play again at the Showboat; and I want to try out the Sands and the Borgata. I'd do another day trip to AC; but for the most part, it is at the bottom of my list. If I have time to stay over a few days, I'd rather fly to Vegas; and for a car trip, I'd do Mohegan Sun.

I did not see late surrender anywhere that I was. I had read that if you asked, the pit boss couldput it in; but I asked; and that did not seem to be the case, at least at the places I played. They had late surrender on anyting at anytime on the Double Attack tables; and Spanish 21 has surrender. But if you want to play regular blackjack with all of the ten cards in the deck, you're out of luck if you're looking for surrender.

If you make a Monday trip, I'd expect about what I saw. I got there on Monday at around 11:45 and left at around 7:00.

I did enjoy my day, thanks. I would have just preferred better rules, and maybe better self-control. I don't count; but from what I saw, you'd be about as well off counting the number of times the waitress stops by as you would the cards that are played. Maybe things are better on the six-deck games or in a high-roller room; but on the main floor where I was, the penetration was lousey.
 
Borgata

Chris said:
The BJ insider said this month about Borgatta...

"Sexy waitresses all over the place. Hotel/casino rating is A. Good news is an all 6-deck casino. Penetration is now 75 to 85 percent. High roller room is 6-decks with no mid-shoe entry. Plenty of $10 and $15 games in the main casino"

I hope I dont get sued now.

anyway,
I was hoping you could confirm this... CHRIS
Click to expand...

I have played in the Borgata, but only on the weekend. :eek: There was 1 $15 table (jam packed) and many $25 and $50 tables on the floor. In addition, I totally disagree with the penetration that the BJ insider mentions. From what I saw, the were cutting 1 1/2 to 2 1/2 decks out (you do the math!). Typically it was near 2 decks... The higher limit games $100 and $200 were near 1 1/2. It is very difficult to back count because there are so many people waiting to play and the emptier tables (with higher limits) are no mid shoe entry...

Just my 2 cents...
 
Borgata May Pay Off . . .

If you count. I have been to the Borgata five times, only on weekends. For lack of any available seats, I was forced to walk out, or play for black on a very minimum bankroll. However, managing a count on the six deck shoes is still easier than 8 deck. No such thing as heat, as long as your pile does not exceed ten grand or so. Too many foriegners dropping tens of thousands at these tables for pit bosses to worry about my little action.

First Trip to Borgata, about six months ago, they had four deck games. I five bagged quickly with BS and loose but effective counting. No heat, and no issues at the cash cage. They did not blink at my little action, on a $100 table!

Second trip, was about the same, but I never saw a four deck game again, six deck only. Lost my limited bankroll, due to black tables being only ones with seats on a Saturday night, but again, when Tiwaniese and South Americans are betting pink and orange chips, and steadily loosing, no one seemed to care when I doubled on 8's, or stand of 16's when the count went up, with a couple black chips out.

Third trip, same as before. Sat at $100 table, anything less required a wait of three deep on Saturday nights. No heat what so ever. Cards and count went my way, and left the table with five Orange. No issue, not even a blink at the case cage, Just a banded brick, once they detirmined that I did not have any markers out.

Having realized the importance and power counting gives the player over the house, I practised extensively with the trainer on this sit, and brushed up on betting adjustments, and BS deviations based on countings and went back to Borgata. Same deal, no Green tables in sights without literally a line to play. Went to black, underfunded. Got "lucky" and left up 54 times minimum bet. Again, no issue coloring up, or cashing out. $42,000 went into the till at that table during my hour and a half of play, and no one blinked at my little score. No heat, what so ever.

Last trip, my bankroll was a little bigger, but still not at my prefered table size of 50 times minimum bet. Never went up. Counts were just low, and I slowly went down $2600 and had the sense of mind to walk. Made some up at The Tropicana, but was down for the trip.

Every "high roller" room in AC I have seen this year has six deck shoes, while the floor all run on 8. Eight deck shoes can be beat, but it takes more time, and they obviously can take longer swings, thus more time must also be available. I much prefer two deck games in Vegas, but limited time, due to the five to seven hour flight has made Vegas difficult while maintaining a M-F 8-5 job. The MIT kids were considerably younger and with their 'team play' their 1 1/2 edge over the house ran around 20%, and was a sure way of drawing heat. Leason learned from Bring Down The House was simple for me. Know the count, and don't get greedy. Keep loses resonible, and don't win more than the house your in is willing to pay out, certainly don't push pass the $10,000 mark, at any one Casino, or you will certainly be marked . . by the Casino!

Additionally, I don't get "rated" prefering to simply saying "no thanks." I don't want the house to have any record of my presence beyond the eye in the sky. I usually can pay travel expenses out of gaming proceeds. Keep the faith, but, keep the count as well!
 
If you don't mind me asking...

anglinw said:
If you count. I have been to the Borgata five times, only on weekends. For lack of any available seats, I was forced to walk out, or play for black on a very minimum bankroll. However, managing a count on the six deck shoes is still easier than 8 deck. No such thing as heat, as long as your pile does not exceed ten grand or so. Too many foriegners dropping tens of thousands at these tables for pit bosses to worry about my little action.

First Trip to Borgata, about six months ago, they had four deck games. I five bagged quickly with BS and loose but effective counting. No heat, and no issues at the cash cage. They did not blink at my little action, on a $100 table!

Second trip, was about the same, but I never saw a four deck game again, six deck only. Lost my limited bankroll, due to black tables being only ones with seats on a Saturday night, but again, when Tiwaniese and South Americans are betting pink and orange chips, and steadily loosing, no one seemed to care when I doubled on 8's, or stand of 16's when the count went up, with a couple black chips out.

Third trip, same as before. Sat at $100 table, anything less required a wait of three deep on Saturday nights. No heat what so ever. Cards and count went my way, and left the table with five Orange. No issue, not even a blink at the case cage, Just a banded brick, once they detirmined that I did not have any markers out.

Having realized the importance and power counting gives the player over the house, I practised extensively with the trainer on this sit, and brushed up on betting adjustments, and BS deviations based on countings and went back to Borgata. Same deal, no Green tables in sights without literally a line to play. Went to black, underfunded. Got "lucky" and left up 54 times minimum bet. Again, no issue coloring up, or cashing out. $42,000 went into the till at that table during my hour and a half of play, and no one blinked at my little score. No heat, what so ever.

Last trip, my bankroll was a little bigger, but still not at my prefered table size of 50 times minimum bet. Never went up. Counts were just low, and I slowly went down $2600 and had the sense of mind to walk. Made some up at The Tropicana, but was down for the trip.

Every "high roller" room in AC I have seen this year has six deck shoes, while the floor all run on 8. Eight deck shoes can be beat, but it takes more time, and they obviously can take longer swings, thus more time must also be available. I much prefer two deck games in Vegas, but limited time, due to the five to seven hour flight has made Vegas difficult while maintaining a M-F 8-5 job. The MIT kids were considerably younger and with their 'team play' their 1 1/2 edge over the house ran around 20%, and was a sure way of drawing heat. Leason learned from Bring Down The House was simple for me. Know the count, and don't get greedy. Keep loses resonible, and don't win more than the house your in is willing to pay out, certainly don't push pass the $10,000 mark, at any one Casino, or you will certainly be marked . . by the Casino!

Additionally, I don't get "rated" prefering to simply saying "no thanks." I don't want the house to have any record of my presence beyond the eye in the sky. I usually can pay travel expenses out of gaming proceeds. Keep the faith, but, keep the count as well!
Click to expand...

I remember reading one of your posts when you went to Vegas where you ended with 300% of your bankroll and ended up playing in the pit.

I asked you your spread in the pit and it is 1-5 (which is fine, if you want to fly below the radar). I also certainly agree it is a good idea not to get rated.

The win rates (for the amount of time you played) that you have mentioned on your trip to Borgata seem quite high (assuming a 1-5 spread). I have playing all over AC over this past summer and I am not saying that it does not happen, but even if you showed up to the black table with 50 units you mentioned that you doubled your roll or even more (you played with less than 50). This happen 2x!

I am extremely happy for you, but these are extremely rare occasions (I would think) Am I correct?

I typically spread 1-4,5 (using an adjusted Basic Strategy Variation Chart - Hi-OptI) and so does my partner, we have an rare occasions come close to doubling the 50 unit roll.

My question: What type of count and system are you using (if you don't mind me asking?) :confused:
 
Luck, perhaps

I am the first to agree. I fully realize that my recent trips, for the most part have been, unusually good. May not be the best way to play, but I get alot more agressive on lower high true counts, say +3, or 4, when I am on house money. I try not to get greedy or play dangerously when I have a good shoe. I Get up and leave when ahead. I have left tables mid deck or shoe after winning a good split of double down if my stack has grown substantially, even with a great count. Too many times, seeming impossible dealer hands occur, regardless of count. The highest bet of the night, suddenly turns into a double down, with 20, against the dealer six, followed by the unthinkable 5, then King. I don't know about anyone else, but that steams me so badly I get reckless and have literally given back one or two thousand, and totally lost count, . . .often leaving a once triple stack, broke. If I'm up a little for the table, I will often raise my bet the full 5 units (on black) or 10 (on green) on a +3 or 4. At or below my original table stack, I don't "gamble" at all. I use the basic hi-low count with side Ace count, with conservative betting adjustments. I will quite often leave the table, or change casinos and scale down table minimums after loosing 15 or 20 units, following all the BS and counting rules. It happens.

Card counting is much easier for me to talk about, than actually do. Last time I was in the Borgata at 2 am on a Saturday Morning, they actually had naked show girls 'body painted' parading around, causing everyone to loose count, or worse! At the risk of having sexual orientation questioned, like it matters, I refussed to even look; the true count was +6 and I had a pink chip out. The reality is, that's hard to do. About four years ago, when I stopped drinks free comps due a bad series of run ins with the law, I soon discovered that I was often winning more than loosing, just trying to keep a vauge count. After I read Bringing Down the House, I really tightened up. This has allowed me the benifit to try much better games in Vegas, found more in "the pits" or Freemont. I refuse to play in teams as I am sure that will draw the inevetable "heat." My little 1 or 1 1/2% real advantage play is enough for me.

Additionally, with the time restictions of 10 to 15 total gaming hours available comfortably on a weekend when I either drive or fly 6 hours one way, I have been inclined to base my bank role on one gaming session, 50 or 60 betting units. Yes, I have lost this in the first hour or play, but maybe one out of 3 times.

Finally, for the most part, I make no adjustment for eledged casino heat (except Freemont), where it is real. Playing bigger Casinos, at higher tables on a crowded night, my little bankroll or play draws little or no attention. "Heat" can be real, but at a $100 table, buying in at five or ten chips at a time draws no attention what so ever, when the guys on either side of me are calling in 3 & 4 thousand dollar markers to continue playing, who cares if my five blacks are now 15. I prefer to play head to head with the dealer, but that does draw attention. I have grown comfortable playing at partial or full tables. My bets are usually the smallest at the table. I try to fly under the radar.

Fully realizing that some may read my posts and dismiss them as story telling, My recent gaming experiences have been very real, and I am not story telling. Since I really started tightening my count a few months ago, I paid off all credit card debt, and acquired one and only one margin account of 10K at Mandala Bay, against my better judgement, with my improved FICO score. I have not used it, yet.

BS, counting and betting rules are fairly standard. We all have the books and charts. My rules are simple:

1. stay sobor
2. balance fear and greed
3. actually KEEP COUNT! and follow the correct BS for the game your playing.
4. Anyone can loose occationally under the best conditions; don't hesitate to leave when ahead.
5. play higher tables with a shorter stack, under the radar, buy in for smaller amounts, I don't loose as much when I buy fewer chips at a time and the table goes south.
6. Don't mix counting systems. stay consistant. I use hi-low with A side count. To try changing would cost me dearly during the transition. Regardless of counting system, stay with it.
7. I am fully prepared to loose my total bankroll before I leave my home. If I can't pay all bills a month in advance and still have a bankroll, I DON"T GO!
8. And stay off plastic, no brainer.

Rambled on to long, but just my thoughts.
 
Thanks for the input fellas. I will probly drive up to AC next week sometime on a weekday. If I cant find a 6 deck like you say Mr. Poker, Ill just back count the 8 decker. Hopefully this 8 deck thing is a weekend thing. Im shooting for 1000 hands through the day, and a 4% risk on my trip bankroll.
 
A.C. casinos

Hey guys and gals, If your looking for six deck tables in A.C. you need to go to the high stakes room at the Claridge casino. It is part of Bally's now.
There is no mid-shoe entry and you can split/double down for a total of up to 4 hands. I have been playing there for well over a decade. Very nice room, quiet, good service, your own private bathrooms, good drinks.
"I always play by myself at a table", and this is the perfect location very few people up there.(usually only two or three). There are only about 5 or 6 tables up there. The min. bet is $50 at one or two of the tables and $100 at the rest of them. I know that might sound like a big min. bet, but the advantages are obvious. Just you against the dealer, Only six decks, Split/double down up to 4 times, No distractions, and you get taken care of while your there.
LET ME MAKE THIS PERFECTLY CLEAR....."NEVER".. play at a table with other people. It will destroy your chances of hitting "your shoe". If you are playing at a 5, 10,15, or now 25 dollar table you will be surrounded by people who will make Bad / Stupid plays on the table. changing from one hand to two hands , staying when they should hit, hitting when they should stay, ect.
If your going to go to a casino to play, then go to play! Don't come to a casino with 400 or 500 dollars in your pocket. You will get wiped out....fast
Save up a little money and bring 1000 or 2000 and come to win...
BLACKJACK IS A SURVIVAL GAME.....a players only purpose is to survive through hours of cards waiting to hit that one shoe with "your name on it".
Then once you hit the run of cards , keep increasing your bets keeping a little of the casinos money each win . Keep increasing to the ceiling, no limit..take the run as far as you can. Then when you lose a hand go back to your "min. bet" Every time, no exceptions....take the runs as far as you can and the bets as high as you can. That way when the cards are running just ok, or bad , you are risking min. bets, when you hit a hot streak your increasing your bets till the very end of the streak( don't keep doubling your bet keep pulling some of the winnings off to your pile of chips), just keep increasing. Next determine when to stop playing. If you came with a 1000
you need to tell yourself in advance when are you a winner??? at a "total" of 1500, 2000?? Determine this in advance, so you can leave a winner. Then go eat and drink, and be a winner!!!
I read a few messages about casino comps, well if your worried about earning comps. Just to let you know, I haven't paid for a room , meal, or drink in over 10 years at Bally's (Claridge).(I go about 4 times a year) So if your gonna go to the casinos to play, then come to play!!! It's a whole different world when your a rated player in A.C.
Have fun and keep on playing.........
 
hola card counting dorks

Okay not exactly next week but I will be going to Atlantic city tommorrow, the crappy rules, and a full platter of extra work has been keeping me from going, Ill post some of the current table rules in that area of wannabe casinos.
 
trip bankroll 2500$ 10-30-50-75-100 chip progressions 0.4% risk of ruin. This statistically should make me a bit less then normal work yeeehaw! Whatever, its good practice, and really I just want to check out the rules for that area.
 
Atlantic City Tuesday Trip

I spent the whole day at the borgata once I found out they did indeed played with 6 decks. I figured the hell with being undercover and played their for about 8 hours. I assumed it would be hard pressed to come close to those rules anywhere else in Atlantic City. Their were 10-200 minumum bet tables from what I saw. They had automatic shuffling machines which sped up the shuffle process but initially after not getting a count of +1 or greater for about 2 and a half hours and moving to three different tables doing a play all aproach I got so frustrated I started asking them if their shuffle machine was a radom shuffle or a mind reader like the ones they have in ballys. About the point when I was going to start screaming at the dealers and pitboss managers that Ive been counting these damn cards for hours and havent had a positive count yet I finally got a count of +2. I got counts of +1 and higer many times later througout the day. It was Tuesday and the tables were pretty full 3-5 people from 2pm-10pm at night they got so full you had to wait for someone to leave the table. The wait usually wasent very long. As for penetration the dealer manually slid the cutoff point himself it was always about 1 and 1/2 decks in, sometimes a little less, and sometimes a little more from what I observed. overall I came out a tad negative, but maintained most of the trip bankroll. I would think on weekends it would be very hard pressed to even get in the game at any hour of the day. The rules at the borgata are very good for Atlantic City though. Very good meaning hardly beatable.

Chris
 
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