Awful results playing Boss Media single deck

KenSmith

Administrator
Staff member
#41
It doesn't necessarily take tons of hands, if the results are bad enough. However, my concern is that Caruso might be hand-picking the worst stretches. Of course you'll find some really bad runs in a dataset of 30K hands.

Whatever, further inquiry on my part will have to wait. I'm off to Aruba tomorrow for the first event of Ultimate Blackjack Tour season 2!
 

mickpk

Active Member
#42
Even thought there is a player edge, with such a low one it is a high risk game. I was playing it quite regularly until recently but time constraints have meant I haven't been able to increase my data beyond 25,000 hands. Within that, I have had some dramatic swings a-la Caruso's play, but I have always bounced back and am showing a profit above expectations. That said, I am aware that I can have as bad an experience as Caruso and see that profit disappear very quickly. The low player edge is just too low to make this a safe game and for everyone to expect automatic profits. It really is for players with a tolerance for risk and with the bankroll to back up their play. For better rewards, I strongly recommend either counting cards at a land casino or playing bonuses at online casinos. I do this for fun as I love the challenge of beating a game by using my skills to maximise my outcome, but other than that, I realise I could lose money doing so.
 
#43
KenSmith said:
It doesn't necessarily take tons of hands, if the results are bad enough. However, my concern is that Caruso might be hand-picking the worst stretches. Of course you'll find some really bad runs in a dataset of 30K hands.
They're the last session always. I'm leaving out nothing since I initially reported.

The last 2600 initial hands have lost at a rate of 2.4 SDs, total loss 144 units. Of the last thirteen 200-hand sessions, eleven have been losers.


Sonny said:
That's not impossible at all (7 SDs)! You keep confusing things that are unlikely with things that are impossible.
This is just silly. The Casino Bar experiment was 6.8 SDs if I recall correctly. This was accepted across the board as catagoric proof of cheating - and by Ken, too. Following this silly suggestion to its ultimate conclusion, you will say that 30 consecutive blackjacks are "possible" and therefore not proof of flawed software because "anything can happen". We're talking about what is rationally impossible here.

I'm sure Ken would concur that a 7 SD result would be catagoric evidence of foul play.
 

KenSmith

Administrator
Staff member
#44
Yes, 7 SDs may as well be certainty.

My recent test results are in. I had someone unaffiliated test the game with 1000 hands.

After 990 hands, he was ahead 5.5 units. The last ten hands took back all the profit in a sequence of losing double downs. The test ended up with a loss of 7.5 units after 1000 hands.

Quite a reasonable result. If the game is gaffed, it is obviously selective. Or, it's fair all around. Any more input from me will have to wait a while. I'm off to Aruba for UBT.
 

Sonny

Well-Known Member
#45
Caruso said:
Of the last thirteen 200-hand sessions, eleven have been losers.
Yeah, try experiencing those results with a 1% advantage and you will really understand what variance is all about! :(

Caruso said:
Following this silly suggestion to its ultimate conclusion, you will say that 30 consecutive blackjacks are "possible" and therefore not proof of flawed software because "anything can happen". We're talking about what is rationally impossible here.
What you need to understand is that there is no such thing as “impossible” in this case. There is no theoretical number of standard deviations that will give us absolute certainty. What we are dealing with is confidence levels. The larger the number of SDs, the more confident we are that our conclusion is accurate. We might be “pretty sure” or even “pretty damn sure” but we will never achieve absolute certainty. I have always agreed that your results could be classified as “pretty damn unlikely.” The fact that we have reached a confidence level that rejects the null hypothesis can constitute “proof” in this case but to use the term “impossible” is not mathematically correct. I don’t mean to be a dick about this (but I will anyway :laugh:), but I’m just anal about this kind of thing. Sorry. :D

-Sonny-
 

ScottH

Well-Known Member
#46
KenSmith said:
Yes, 7 SDs may as well be certainty.
With the thousands and thousands of gamblers playing everyday, isn't it actually LIKELY that someone will experience a 7 SD downswing at some point? To the person experiencing it seems like it's rigged, but looking at all the gamblers as a whole it isn't so hard to believe.
 
#47
Sonny said:
The fact that we have reached a confidence level that rejects the null hypothesis can constitute “proof” in this case but to use the term “impossible” is not mathematically correct. I don’t mean to be a dick about this (but I will anyway :laugh:), but I’m just anal about this kind of thing. Sorry. :D
Yeah, we're just disagreeing on definitions, I'm not disputing the basic premise. Nothing is "impossible", however statistically absurd. "Reaching a confidence level which rejects the null hypothesis" is just so much harder to write than "impossible". :)
 
#48
Although my return is well within statistical expectation – 0.5 SDs – I remain very much unconvinced that this game is dealing in random manner. The whole nature of the game has seemed, from the outset and for want of a better word, wacko. It feels like a blackjack slot machine, delivering winning and losing runs far greater than a genuine game.

I decided to try and test this contention, by comparing randomly chosen 2000-hand samples against a 2000-hand sample that I would deal manually (yikes). I would compare them by noting all the non-winning and non-losing sequences, from sequences of four upwards.

An example of a 4-hand “non-win” is: L/P/L/P

An example of a 4-hand “non-lose” is: P/W/W/P

Two winning splits count as two wins, and vice versa.

A W/L split counts as a push, so a sequence of win / win / win / lose-win split counts as a 4-hand non-lose.

I could explain this in more detail – and in fact there are several more explanations necessary to give an accurate account of my tracking system – but the only really important matter is that the criteria are applied consistently.

I have to date tested five randomly chosen 2000-hand samples of the Pharoahs game, in addition to noting all the above sequences in my 2000-hand manual sample. I will not detail the numbers for each sequence of each sample, as it would be unnecessarily cumbersome. I’ll post some relevant summaries.

NL = “no lose”, and NW = “no win”

TOTAL SEQUENCES:

My sample:

NL = 51
NW = 90
Total = 141

Boss sample 1:

NL = 75
NW = 84
Total = 159

Boss sample 2:

NL = 67
NW = 98
Total = 165

Boss sample 3:

NL = 65
NW = 85
Total = 150

Boss sample 4:

NL = 70
NW = 92
Total = 162

Boss sample 5:

NL = 66
NW = 78
Total = 144

The immediate conclusion here is that my manual sample contains fewer overall runs than ANY of the Pharoah’s samples.

It’s also noteworthy that there are less WINNING runs in the manual sample than any of the Pharoah’s samples.

The next example is details of the most prolific runs, the shortest, ie. the 4-hand sequences, and these are quite extraordinary:

My sample:

NL4 = 17
NW4 = 31
Total = 48

Boss sample 1:

NL4 = 43
NW4 = 32
Total = 75

Boss sample 2:

NL4 = 23
NW4 = 31
Total = 54

Boss sample 3:

NL4 = 36
NW4 = 52
Total = 88

Boss sample 4:

NL4 = 36
NW4 = 46
Total = 82

Boss sample 5:

NL4 = 24
NW4 = 29
Total = 53

The exact same conclusion here:

1) My manual sample contains less 4 NW / NL sequences than ANY of the five Pharoahs samples to date tested.

2) Although the losing sequences are there or thereabouts in relation to the manual one, the winning sequences are off the scale, being double the random amount on two out of the five, and just under TREBLE on one occasion.

This evidence supports my contention, it cannot be denied. Of the six samples, the random sample is far and away the least “streaky” (hate that word).

The question is: I know there are going to be calls from the “random brigade” that this is insufficient testing, that the fact that the Pharoahs game fails spectacularly on all fronts over the five test, five tests (or 10,000 hands) is not enough.

So how many tests would you like? I would like Ken to answer this question. I have about 180 pages of 200-hand data, and hence I could conceivably run 170 tests, pages 1 – 10, 2 – 11, 3 – 12 etc etc. I contend that each and every test will throw up results exactly in line with the above, and that not one Pharoahs sample will be less streaky than the random sample.

At what point will my results conclusively prove that this game is dealing in non-random fashion? If each and every 170 tests show sequences above my random sample, this can only be far more than sufficient evidence. Already, the five random 2000-hand tests are very damning in my opinion.

Equally, I could (painfully) produce another 2000-hand manual sample and add it to the previous one as double the genuine data for comparison with the Pharoahs data.

Opinions sought.
 
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