backoffs per day

[blackriver]

How often do casinos back players off? I feel like this would give us a better idea of how paranoid to be and how likely we are to be remembered.

Id like to see this answered in as many ways as possible by as many people as possible. so please chime in, even if youve already seen you opinion stated.

if u just crush a local region/store let us know what youve seen

explain if your observations only cover red and grene, green and black or black and purple

is it impossible to get backed off if you mostly only play on busy weekends and holidays?

if you get half shoed at harrahs/ceasars in AC are you mostly backed off from harrahs/ceasars in vegas? if your half shoed at taj mahal are yoy also half shoed at resorts?

please give as much info as you can

 

[blackriver]

im litterally interested in quantity here. do you think there are 10 backoffs per day in the US? 100? 500? how many people do the big casinos back off per day on avg? 1? 2? 10?

 

[moo321]

Oh, overall in the US? I have no idea.

Strip/AC casinos are probably 1-2 a week on each shift. Smaller joints may be less, outside of Vegas/AC will be less.


And if you get in trouble at one casino, it will probably be on your player's card at other casinos in that network.

 

[creeping panther]

Back-offs

im litterally interested in quantity here. do you think there are 10 backoffs per day in the US? 100? 500? how many people do the big casinos back off per day on avg? 1? 2? 10?

I think Vegas is the overall smartest for catching AP's,,,but there is a great difference from casino to casino, as you know.

One thing, it is a very bad event to be barred, and must be avoided at all costs:sad:

CP

 

[aslan]

I think Vegas is the overall smartest for catching AP's,,,but there is a great difference from casino to casino, as you know.

One thing, it is a very bad event to be barred, and must be avoided at all costs:sad:

CP

Recent thinking is that they can't bar you and make it stick for counting in Vegas. They can flat bet you-- they can deal around you-- they can prohibit you from playing blackjack-- maybe, they can make you leave that day-- but some recent court rulings suggest they can't keep you from coming back. Apparently, trespass has to be for something worse than performing the legal act of counting. It has to be rowdiness, cheating, drunken behavior, or something else with teeth. http://www.blackjackinfo.com/bb/showthread.php?t=20268&highlight=trespass+las+vegas

 

[Sucker]

is it impossible to get backed off if you mostly only play on busy weekends and holidays?

No. I have several times been backed off just for WALKING THROUGH the casino. I have been backed off by telephone when I wasn't even in the same TOWN. If someone in charge decides that you're a threat to the casinos' profits; you'll be backed off.

 

[creeping panther]

Sucker

No. I have several times been backed off just for WALKING THROUGH the casino. I have been backed off by telephone when I wasn't even in the same TOWN. If someone in charge decides that you're a threat to the casinos' profits; you'll be backed off.

You one Bad Azz MoFu,,,,YEOWWWWW:laugh:

CP

 

[MAZ]

I would be more scared of not ever getting a back off. Back offs are no badge of honor or right of passage as some like to spout off about, but, they only come when you have established being as least somewhat of a threat to the casinos advantage. Yeah sure an occasional lucky ploppy may get the boot from a stupid casino for winning too much, but that is no concern of an AP. As a straight counter if you can sit and play marathon sessions unmolested by the casino.....you probably suck at being an AP and are very welcome to play there anytime. Back offs are part of the game, if you play scared of them most times it negatively affects your play. Its no better than playing with scared money of a bankroll you shouldn't be risking.....it'll make ya stupid.

 

[MeWin$]

Backoffs

I have played 2600 hrs with no backoffs. Ive been 86'd once (in Atlantic City no less,which is obviously illegal but they dont want my action so i dont try to go back yet,) half shoed or reduced pen 8 times, stared at by a wall of suits for intimidation reasons 3 times, and had megaheat requiring a swift exit maybe a dozen times.
The sweatiest places IMO are definitely off strip casinos and lower end strip casinos in Vegas; and the least sweaty are casinos in the far flung areas of the country and world.
I have played green to black for over 500 hrs at one casino, there they just dont believe counters are a threat, and i have found many casinos with high tolerances in my travels.
I havent played at El cortez yet, i sometimes think that if im ever downtown, i should go there in one of my disguises and try to spread black just to see how quick a backoff can come
PS can anyone spread green to chunky black at Golden Nugget anymore? Im just curious.

 

[BJgenius007]

How often do casinos back players off? I feel like this would give us a better idea of how paranoid to be and how likely we are to be remembered.

Id like to see this answered in as many ways as possible by as many people as possible. so please chime in, even if youve already seen you opinion stated.

if u just crush a local region/store let us know what youve seen

explain if your observations only cover red and grene, green and black or black and purple

is it impossible to get backed off if you mostly only play on busy weekends and holidays?

if you get half shoed at harrahs/ceasars in AC are you mostly backed off from harrahs/ceasars in vegas? if your half shoed at taj mahal are yoy also half shoed at resorts?

please give as much info as you can

Personally I have never seen one single person backed off just for counting. And I have played a lot of BJ in AC and LV. I spread 1 to 20 playing green chips. I am pretty sure even some casino knowing I am counting and winning, they don't bother backing me off because this is covered in their biz expense. So I have never believe in those backoff stories I read. I also believe it is other AP spreading paranoid to curb AP population.

By the way, I have seen other counters spread $25 to $950 and the casino didn't do anything about it. So 40 to 1 spread might be the limit for the green chippers. My advice for red and green chippers, especially novice counters, is that don't let other APs scare you. Do your best on counting. Don't be afraid to spread. And don't do stupid things for the "cover".

 

[Sucker]

So I have never believe in those backoff stories I read. I also believe it is other AP spreading paranoid to curb AP population.

And I don't believe that President Kennedy was really assassinated. I think that's just a story concocted by the politicians to try to scare me out of running for president.

 

[Sucker]

My point being; bad advice can be harmful if taken to heart by an inexperienced person.

 

[paddywhack]

Personally I have never seen one single person backed off just for counting. And I have played a lot of BJ in AC and LV. I spread 1 to 20 playing green chips. I am pretty sure even some casino knowing I am counting and winning, they don't bother backing me off because this is covered in their biz expense. So I have never believe in those backoff stories I read. I also believe it is other AP spreading paranoid to curb AP population.

By the way, I have seen other counters spread $25 to $950 and the casino didn't do anything about it. So 40 to 1 spread might be the limit for the green chippers. My advice for red and green chippers, especially novice counters, is that don't let other APs scare you. Do your best on counting. Don't be afraid to spread. And don't do stupid things for the "cover".

I agree with a few points. One, you need a decent spread to beat most shoe games, at least from a play all perspective. Two, most red and green chippers should forget about costly cover plays. Three, many places will tolerate larger spreads than you think


As for the back offs. I have been backed off, in Vegas, and no, not at EC, and with a much smaller spread than 1-20 green. So they do happen.

 

[blackriver]

Personally I have never seen one single person backed off just for counting. And I have played a lot of BJ in AC and LV. I spread 1 to 20 playing green chips. I am pretty sure even some casino knowing I am counting and winning, they don't bother backing me off because this is covered in their biz expense. So I have never believe in those backoff stories I read. I also believe it is other AP spreading paranoid to curb AP population.

By the way, I have seen other counters spread $25 to $950 and the casino didn't do anything about it. So 40 to 1 spread might be the limit for the green chippers. My advice for red and green chippers, especially novice counters, is that don't let other APs scare you. Do your best on counting. Don't be afraid to spread. And don't do stupid things for the "cover".

this sounds like some advanced metagame. u want me to be blantant and get barred making 1 less AP at your tables?

jk, but seriously. this is a site full of people helping others otu for no personal gain. why would they do that then say "oh yeah, but dont play" or whatever

my friend got backed off once and ive been backed off once and painfully flyered in my area. also been told i wont be getting dealt a good game in AC ever again

btw, if its not too personal what is your hourly win rate?

 

[Solo player]

I think Vegas is the overall smartest for catching AP's,,,but there is a great difference from casino to casino, as you know.

One thing, it is a very bad event to be barred, and must be avoided at all costs:sad:

CP

I could not agree more.

 

[Solo player]

Personally I have never seen one single person backed off just for counting. And I have played a lot of BJ in AC and LV. I spread 1 to 20 playing green chips. I am pretty sure even some casino knowing I am counting and winning, they don't bother backing me off because this is covered in their biz expense. So I have never believe in those backoff stories I read. I also believe it is other AP spreading paranoid to curb AP population.

By the way, I have seen other counters spread $25 to $950 and the casino didn't do anything about it. So 40 to 1 spread might be the limit for the green chippers. My advice for red and green chippers, especially novice counters, is that don't let other APs scare you. Do your best on counting. Don't be afraid to spread. And don't do stupid things for the "cover".

Just wondering how many hours you have put in ,or total hands played at the tables to come to this conclusion? I'm pretty sure back offs are gonna happen. 50+ hrs. of recent play spreading 1-8 in quarters in good double deck games over several trips on the the strip and including including a few hours of off strip 2 deck play thrown in as well resulted in a net win of -4.00$. With a total of 3 back offs. You don't have to be winning to get backed off.

 

[Dyepaintball12]

So I have never believe in those backoff stories I read. I also believe it is other AP spreading paranoid to curb AP population.

That is literally the most ridiculous thing I have read on this forum in a long time. It's blatantly false and an outright lie.

 

[Severity8]

hmmm

I've been told where I play that at 5k surv is notified 10k surv manager is notified, 20k executive staff is notified 30k GM notified and cut off but that is native casinos in OK. I'm sure it's different throughout the US.

 

[Severity8]

to add

It should also be made of note that the majority of casino's can't afford the big software so at best you have one kid (who is probably a counter) chasing the the shoe... so they are at best a shoe behind if lucky.... the majority of them think AP'ers are black chippers.

 

[pit15]

I have played 2600 hrs with no backoffs. Ive been 86'd once (in Atlantic City no less,which is obviously illegal but they dont want my action so i dont try to go back yet,) half shoed or reduced pen 8 times, stared at by a wall of suits for intimidation reasons 3 times, and had megaheat requiring a swift exit maybe a dozen times.
The sweatiest places IMO are definitely off strip casinos and lower end strip casinos in Vegas; and the least sweaty are casinos in the far flung areas of the country and world.
I have played green to black for over 500 hrs at one casino, there they just dont believe counters are a threat, and i have found many casinos with high tolerances in my travels.
I havent played at El cortez yet, i sometimes think that if im ever downtown, i should go there in one of my disguises and try to spread black just to see how quick a backoff can come
PS can anyone spread green to chunky black at Golden Nugget anymore? Im just curious.

I would consider getting half shoed a backoff. Your player card (if you used one) is burned, and you might need to stay away from that shift for a while. It's really not much different from being told your action isn't welcome anymore. Either way you've been identified.