bad attitude, educating newbies in BS

[plainplayer]

I was turning a really nice profit at Rivers last evening when a woman sat down on my right who proceeded to play the worst game of BJ I've ever seen.

I realize we were all new once. Really, I do. She was standing on 14 against A, declining to split 8s, declining to double 11, hitting 15 against 6. Completely random, it seemed. I pulled out a simple BS strategy card that I carry around, but she wasn't taking any advice. She also had clearly matched her inability with an excess of cash, so she wasn't going away.

When her play wrecked mine for the 3rd time (yes, I know, one can debate whether dumb players' play helps or hurts one's own play, and there's a theory that it should all balance out, for/against oneself -- but not last evening) for combined losses due to her of over $100, I left that table, picked another, and resumed profit-taking.

I wish there was a technical solution to the social problem of having to play alongside people who really should never have walked in the door. The saving grace is that there are oodles of other tables to which one can go. But that masks the deeper problem of how to deal effectively with rotten play, and my cruddy attitude that develops.

 

[creeping panther]

Plain

I was turning a really nice profit at Rivers last evening when a woman sat down on my right who proceeded to play the worst game of BJ I've ever seen.

I realize we were all new once. Really, I do. She was standing on 14 against A, declining to split 8s, declining to double 11, hitting 15 against 6. Completely random, it seemed. I pulled out a simple BS strategy card that I carry around, but she wasn't taking any advice. She also had clearly matched her inability with an excess of cash, so she wasn't going away.

When her play wrecked mine for the 3rd time (yes, I know, one can debate whether dumb players' play helps or hurts one's own play, and there's a theory that it should all balance out, for/against oneself -- but not last evening) for combined losses due to her of over $100, I left that table, picked another, and resumed profit-taking.

I wish there was a technical solution to the social problem of having to play alongside people who really should never have walked in the door. The saving grace is that there are oodles of other tables to which one can go. But that masks the deeper problem of how to deal effectively with rotten play, and my cruddy attitude that develops.

A women eh!!

Use your manly powers of persuausion, flatter, cajole, flirt,,,soon she will be trying to make you happy so she can consumate her new relationship.

CP

 

[21forme]

(yes, I know, one can debate whether dumb players' play helps or hurts one's own play, and there's a theory that it should all balance out, for/against oneself -- but not last evening)

No, it's not debatable.

 

[prankster]

hi plaiplayer-
Whenever we observe such a player we should get up from the table,face them, and while standing at attention salute them! Then-sit and resume play. These are the people who keep the place in business!:joker:

 

[shadroch]

There is no debate about what effect bad players have on you. Until you accept that, everything else is just noise.

 

[Billy C1]

I still do it

Bad players have an effect on each hand just as good players do. They either take or don't take cards that naturally affect your results. You just never know ahead of time if their actions are going to bring you positive or negative results.
It's human nature to look for things to blame losses on and this is a prime example of that. The idea that you win at tables where the play is "right" and lose at tables where the play is "wrong" is a fallacy. The only "right" play you can and need to control is your own.
Knowing this is all true, I still blame the bastards too!

BillyC1

 

[zoomie]

If you really pay attention, you will see others' mistakes both helping and hurting you. Even though it always seems that they only hurt . . . :whip:

 

[Sucker]

If bad players affect you emotionally in any way, then you're probably doing the right thing by changing tables. But bear in mind that I'm not at all telling you to change tables because of something THEY'VE done. I'm telling you to change tables because of, as others are pointing out; your inability to understand the (non-debatable) fact that bad play by others has absolutely no effect on your results.
This flaw in your thinking can easily transfer into mistakes on your part, caused by the fact that you're getting upset over this.

 

[Machinist]

Plainplayer!!!!!!!!!! Don't make us banish you to the VOODOO SECTION!!!!!!!!!!
It's horrible down there.......:cry::cry::cry:

I agree with the above posts........PLoppies keep the lights on......
Have you hugged a ploppy today????:laugh::laugh:

Machinist

 

[plainplayer]

Bad players...either take or don't take cards that naturally affect your results.

That, of course, was exactly my point. During the brief interlude during which this woman and I intersected at that table -- all of perhaps 15 hands, before my annoyance drove me onward -- i can say quite clearly that nothing she did ever helped my play. And it is clear from (e.g.) some cards she did not hit, which would not have hurt her but did hurt me, that her play injured mine. There are reasons why one should usually not stand on 14, after all.

Such is life. I'm not really blaming her in the long term. Having cleared about $800 at $10 and $15 tables last evening, I'm not exactly sweating it. I'm just annoyed.

 

[plainplayer]

Don't make us banish you to the VOODOO SECTION!!!!!!!!!! It's horrible down there

I've been threatened with that virtually since I showed up here. Eh.

Trust me, I recognize the statistical realities as well as the next guy. It is still true that, as a short-term observation, her failure to play a proper game had detrimental effects. No doubt, if I'd stuck around long enough, she'd have done equivalently stupid things that would have turned the tide the other way for me. But I haven't the patience for that.

 

[London Colin]

No doubt, if I'd stuck around long enough, she'd have done equivalently stupid things that would have turned the tide the other way for me. But I haven't the patience for that.

Why on earth should it require any patience?

You might just as well focus on any perfect-BS players you happen upon, and take note of every time their making a correct play ruins your hand. You can then curse them for not being a ploppy. (And since the ploppies are apparently in the majority you won't suffer as often if you do it this way around.)

 

[Billy C1]

Indices

Another thing that plainplayer needs to consider is indices play. What may look like a mistake sometimes isn't.

BillyC1

 

[plainplayer]

You might just as well focus on any perfect-BS players you happen upon, and take note of every time their making a correct play ruins your hand

Y'know, it's rather amazing to see how much the folks around here like to condemn anyone and everyone who doesn't play exactly like they do, or who doesn't think about the game exactly the way they do.

The frequency with which I find a good player ruining my hand is comparatively small. That's not an anecdotal claim; that's from collected hard data. Bad players having wild swings of effect on my play are common. Eventually, it all balances out, but these things come in waves and hang around a while, before the wave shifts the other direction. Just part of positive and negative variance in a general sense. The waves of effect from good players are of lower magnitude (in both directions) than the waves from bad players, eventual evening-out notwithstanding.

 

[plainplayer]

What may look like a mistake sometimes isn't.

You may have missed my initial observation that her cash reserves exceeded her skill.

If she was good enough to be using index plays, I tend to think she would not have been losing nearly as consistently as she did. Anything's possible, I suppose -- a horrid period of negative variance for her. But I doubt it. I think she just sucks at BJ, and has enough disposable income to enjoy disposing of it at the table.

 

[Machinist]

Y'know, it's rather amazing to see how much the folks around here like to condemn anyone and everyone who doesn't play exactly like they do, or who doesn't think about the game exactly the way they do.

The frequency with which I find a good player ruining my hand is comparatively small. That's not an anecdotal claim; that's from collected hard data. Bad players having wild swings of effect on my play are common. Eventually, it all balances out, but these things come in waves and hang around a while, before the wave shifts the other direction. Just part of positive and negative variance in a general sense. The waves of effect from good players are of lower magnitude (in both directions) than the waves from bad players, eventual evening-out notwithstanding.

Oh no!!!! now ya did it!!! Do ya hear them ....?? they are coming for ya Plainplayer...:laugh::laugh::laugh:

Machinist

 

[plainplayer]

now ya did it!!! Do ya hear them ....?? they are coming for ya

:grin:

 

[Billy C1]

You may have missed my initial observation that her cash reserves exceeded her skill.

If she was good enough to be using index plays, I tend to think she would not have been losing nearly as consistently as she did. Anything's possible, I suppose -- a horrid period of negative variance for her. But I doubt it. I think she just sucks at BJ, and has enough disposable income to enjoy disposing of it at the table.

No argument here. I'm sure your assessment of that lady was accurate. I was thinking more about all players in general and could have made that clearer.

BillyC1

 

[plainplayer]

I was thinking more about all players in general and could have made that clearer.

Oh, yes, I see your point now. Pardon me for not picking up the contextual shift.

 

[Dyepaintball12]

The first time I ever played the game, I sat down and figured I wanted to get closer to 21 than the dealer so hit all my stiffs against any dealer up card.

After losing several hands my friend says to the dealer, "You're killing my friend!" to which she responded "He's killing himself."

That will stick with me forever and after that I started reading up on how to play.

If other players had been at the table and told me about bust cards I probably would have listened to them because I had no idea what I was doing. However, lots of new players don't care at all about your opinion and telling them the correct move only makes them angry. Some people get mad at the mention of "playing by the book" because they figure that "playing by the book" will make you lose in the long run.

I played with a man in AC who consistently doubled down on his hard 12s and 13s and after the table had been talking about "the book" plays he doubled a hard 13 against a 20 and got a 21 and started yelling "Throw the Book out the Door!!!" Pretty funny I thought