Bad card counter lines

Lonesome Gambler

Well-Known Member
It might just be me, but I'm shocked at how often people think they're saying/doing things at the tables that make them appear to be civilians but that are terribly conspicuous to almost anyone that has any concern about game protection (ie. the pit). I know this has been covered by people much more capable than me, but this is something I read about on a near-daily basis on this forum, so I thought I'd bring it up. Here are some examples:

1. "Card counting? No one can keep track of 6 decks!" The pit knows that many people can, in fact, do this, and they know that many players playing good basic strategy know this as well. Everyone's seen "21." When you say something you don't actually believe, it probably doesn't ring as true as you think it does.

2. "Card counting? Isn't that illegal?" The only people that still "think" card counting is illegal are counters trying to allay suspicion from the pit. Again, unless you're a hell of an actor, you're probably not fooling anyone here. Sure, there are some people out there that think counting is illegal, but they're usually not the same people making sound playing decisions and attracting the attention of the pit in the first place.

3. Various comments about "the flow of cards," "taking the dealer's bust card," etc. I once made a comment to a dealer about playing "with the house's money," and he abruptly stopped what he was doing, gave me a "come on, you're not fooling anyone" look, and said to me, "you know that's not true." No big deal, but the more you use these lines, the less convincingly you deliver them (in my experience). I find that when playing any sort of volume, I often unintentionally slip in some total BS statements ("too bad he left when he did, or he would have gotten the dealer's cards!"), and they sound more ridiculous and false every time I hear them. It's not a stretch to think that any half-smart pit worker with existing suspicions would see straight through statements like these.

If you find yourself in a position where you feel the need to explain your behavior, it's likely because you've gotten some unwanted attention from the pit. More often than not, this is because they (or someone upstairs) have observed your game and are nervous that you may know what you're doing. At this point, do you think that claiming complete and total ignorance is going to throw them off?

The bottom line is that you don't look like a degenerate gambler, you don't act or play like a degenerate gambler, and the pit knows it. I'm sure there are some APs with exceptional acting skills, but I'm confident that the vast majority only thinks that they possess these. Plenty of people gamble without an edge but don't follow absurd superstitions or possess an overwhelming ignorance of the games that they're put heavy action on, and you can be one of them. This is especially true if you play a local game frequently—you can only pretend to be completely oblivious for so long. Eventually you'll need to adopt the habits of the recreational gambler that spends a lot of time gambling for fun but doesn't pretend to know absolutely nothing about the finer points of the game that they play week in and week out.

Again, I'm certainly no expert, but this is the way I look at it. What do you think?
 

21forme

Well-Known Member
I disagree. Just listen to people around you talking and you'll hear those lines all the time - and not from APs.
 
Lonesome Gambler said:
Again, I'm certainly no expert, but this is the way I look at it. What do you think?
I've got two words for you: Ethyl. Alcohol.

My other advice is to get involved with women at the table. Those kind of "lines" can sound really bad, and at the same time sound absolutely normal.

Here's one: tell a girl you know how to count cards now, because you saw the movie "21."
 

pogostick

Well-Known Member
Lonesome gambler> you are right on! A lot of these posts are only dreams ,but some are really informative. The ideal situration for me would be at a $$15 table ,just me & the dealer with my little gifted brother dressed in a suit wearing a bow tie saying many, many, many. We all know it just does not happen like that. Usually I'm setting at a table with 5 or 6 other players trying to count & I don't think the pit boss gives a rats ass. The only time I have ever been approched was when I was playing 2 hands & was switching back to 1 hand when the count became negative then to 2 hands positive. I pay no attention to other players ,only the value of their cards. POGO
 
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Ferretnparrot

Well-Known Member
I think you just have to play it off correctly....

About 80% when I have bought in with over 1k in front of the pit and everybody else, they start to look at me funny like I have a prob, the pit starts looking at me funny, and I begin the....guys its ok, you have no idea how bad I just raped the craps table next door... Ill get all excited....I was like droppen them bets , and this due was so hot, so I pressed it, **** let's press it right here! Bam 200x3. Let's do this! I do this all of the time, using the drunken. " Let's press it...let's go". .... Let's do it! All in all I'm playing the house money move but I'm leading in the conversation by being excited, if you simply say to somebody you are using house money, and then wait for a reply, they will give you a reply and prob not care or believe you.

For the bust card thing, you gotta preced the play with the by either doing it all the time on every play, or acting more like other people by asking first and announcing it to the rest of the table, if you do it one time after playing solid basic you are right, nobody will believe you.

About being asked if you are counting, I pretend I have no idea what that is and again, I will lead the conversation by making an action or talking about something different as if I was completely unmoved by the question since it doesn't relate to me. This has only happened to me once and I played it like that successfully, I was asked directly by the pit boss if I was counting, I continued to play for several hours and we also engaged in freindly conversation the rest of the night.
 
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