Bankroll for beginner in MS???
- Thread starter KidTampa
- Start date
Well $10,000 would be a good start if possible. Would not start out with less than $3000.
Automatic Monkey
Banned
Zero. You cannot earn any income playing basic strategy.
Agreed. He won't be supplementing any income with only basic strategy. If only it was that easy...
adt_33
Active Member
I disagree. Although I still consider myself a novice, I've walked away from the casino six times (out of six) with a profit. My total profit is now over $550.
I don't remember the actual odds with playing perfect BS (and sources disagree anyways) but as I recall you win 43%, push 9%, and lose 48%. With the odds being slightly less than half in your favor, you must know when to leave the casino. That is what I believe keeps me ahead. Of course, with this site being full of counters, they will tell you that my winnings were due to luck. Well, that may be true to an extent, but a successful six out of six casino trips keeps my eyebrows raised at the counters. (Not that I'm not grateful to you counters for the help you regularly dispense on this site)
You can find on nearly any page here that card counting is the only way to tip the odds in your favor, and I believe that. And if you mean by supplemental income you mean significant income, then I retract my disagreement. But if you're looking to use your winnings to buy a case of beer every now and again, then you shouldn't have a problem if you know when to quit playing.
And to your actual question, I've always bet 1/10 (or less) of what I bring to the casino.
I don't remember the actual odds with playing perfect BS (and sources disagree anyways) but as I recall you win 43%, push 9%, and lose 48%. With the odds being slightly less than half in your favor, you must know when to leave the casino. That is what I believe keeps me ahead. Of course, with this site being full of counters, they will tell you that my winnings were due to luck. Well, that may be true to an extent, but a successful six out of six casino trips keeps my eyebrows raised at the counters. (Not that I'm not grateful to you counters for the help you regularly dispense on this site)
You can find on nearly any page here that card counting is the only way to tip the odds in your favor, and I believe that. And if you mean by supplemental income you mean significant income, then I retract my disagreement. But if you're looking to use your winnings to buy a case of beer every now and again, then you shouldn't have a problem if you know when to quit playing.
And to your actual question, I've always bet 1/10 (or less) of what I bring to the casino.
If you know the odds are against you 48 to 43, then knowing when to leave the casino is simple, leave as soon as you possibly can!
Whether you want to admit it or not, they are right, it's due to luck. Keep playing and see for yourself.
You just said that counting is the only way to tip the odds in your favor, then you talk about buying beer with the profit. If you play only BS long enough, you won't have any profit to buy your beer. In fact, by playing BS, you are essentially giving your beer to the casino.
I think that one of the worst things that can happen to a gambler has happened to you. You have started out winning without any problems. You have won 6/6 sessions and now you think that you can make a profit by just knowing to quit while you're ahead.
I think it's much better to start out losing, then you realize you're playing a losing game and either quit, or learn how to play a winning game. By getting lucky and winning while playing a losing strategy, it can give you a false idea of the game, and will only cost you money in the long run.
So it you are wise you will snap out of it, and learn how to count!
Sonny
Well-Known Member
I wouldn't say that card counting is the only way to get the edge, but it is probably the easiest method. As far as profit goes, any player, no matter how poorly they play, will occasionally win some money. Basic strategy will ensure that you are playing accurately and therefore increasing your chances of walking away a winner, but it will not produce consistent profit. The house will still have the edge so you should expect to lose money in the long run. You will have plenty of winning sessions but you should not expect any profit (defined as "positive gain from an investment or business operation after subtracting for all expenses") from the game unless you learn advanced techniques.
The bankroll requirements will depend on how many houes you expect to play during each session.
-Sonny-
The bankroll requirements will depend on how many houes you expect to play during each session.
-Sonny-
adt_33
Active Member
I must be honest I don't understand this part.
Example of what I was getting at:
Casino Trip #1: win $35. Buy beer.
Casino Trip #2: win $10. Buy beer.
Casino Trip #3: lose $50. Cry yourself to sleep.
Casino Trip #4: lose $25. Vow to never gamble again. (only to return in three months)
etc...
ScottH: I think you're crazy to think I meant "you can't ever win w/ BS" when saying that counting is the only way to increase your odds. Of course you can win in the short-term. As usual, counting increases long-term odds, which I thought was obvious in my statement.
Sidenote: I can't ascertain the distinction between long-term and short-term. Does my current "good luck streak" mean that I'll lose soon, because it should always be factored into the long-term? Well, I asked that question recently only to be assured that this is an example of the gambler's fallacy (which I already suspected). So, in the long run, every win with BS has nothing to do with subsequent/previous wins with BS.
But yes, counter demi-gods, you are better than me at blackjack!
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Let me apologize...
Did not mean to start a world war here. My intentions as a player are to learn to count and get to where I can play with the edge. I should have been more clear on my initial post. But I think in the midst of all this that I got my answer. So take 100 times whatever you plan on betting correct? Also, when you counters go to a session do you set out to play for a set number of hours or do you set a stop loss amount?
Did not mean to start a world war here. My intentions as a player are to learn to count and get to where I can play with the edge. I should have been more clear on my initial post. But I think in the midst of all this that I got my answer. So take 100 times whatever you plan on betting correct? Also, when you counters go to a session do you set out to play for a set number of hours or do you set a stop loss amount?
Sonny
Well-Known Member
I think you just have a different definition of "profit" than we do. In your example above you look at it as making a profit half of the time (short-term profit). Other people look at it as a 30 unit loss (long-term profit). As I mentioned above, any player will have at least some winning sessions and therefore experience short-term profit. You are right about that. I just want to make sure that the new guy doesn't expect to earn long-term profit by playing BS. If he is looking for supplimental income then he will be disappointed.
-Sonny-
Sonny
Well-Known Member
Don't worry, we play like this all the time. We all respect each other's opinions and ideas so nobody gets offended very often.
As an Advantage Player you will want a bankroll of about 100 of your max bets. As a BS player you can use a much smaller trip bankroll if since you will replenish it whenever you lose it all. You can also use trip bankrolls for Advantage Play but the formula is slightly trickier.
-Sonny-
I know that you CAN win with BS, but you can never EXPECT to, which is the point I was getting at.
zengrifter
Banned
Before you place the first bet, in fact! zg
Sonny
Well-Known Member
Your unit size will be based on yout minimum bet. Your max bet will usually be 8-20 times higher than your minimum bet. For example, betting $10-$100 would be a 1-10 spread with a $10 unit.
-Sonny-
With that spread the $1000 BR is not big enough.
EasyRhino
Well-Known Member
If you're just playing BS for fun, I recommend flat betting a small amount. If this is the case, then you'd want a bankroll of something like 10 units (very short outing), 20 units (longer outing) or 100 units (multiday).
You can always play with less, but you may bust out sooner than you planned.
If you want to practice counting, my first advice would be to practice A BUNCH in ways that don't cost you any money. Kitchen table, software, etc.
When gambling with real money, especially if not much of a BJ player anyway, consider "acclimating" yourself with very small spreads (2x, 3x).
Thirdly, the rule of thumb is 100 units of your MAX bet (5-50 spread -> $5000 bankroll). I'm unsure if this is assuming a non-replenishable bankroll (professional gambler) or replenishable (you can rebuild with BR with your day job).
Now, personally, I'm out of town and very near some casinos at this moment, and I've been playing a lot. My BR at the start of the trip was $500, 100 times the table min of $5, but only 20 times my big bet of $25. I am running a significant chance of losing my BR, and cutting short my gambling.
You can always play with less, but you may bust out sooner than you planned.
If you want to practice counting, my first advice would be to practice A BUNCH in ways that don't cost you any money. Kitchen table, software, etc.
When gambling with real money, especially if not much of a BJ player anyway, consider "acclimating" yourself with very small spreads (2x, 3x).
Thirdly, the rule of thumb is 100 units of your MAX bet (5-50 spread -> $5000 bankroll). I'm unsure if this is assuming a non-replenishable bankroll (professional gambler) or replenishable (you can rebuild with BR with your day job).
Now, personally, I'm out of town and very near some casinos at this moment, and I've been playing a lot. My BR at the start of the trip was $500, 100 times the table min of $5, but only 20 times my big bet of $25. I am running a significant chance of losing my BR, and cutting short my gambling.
Sonny
Well-Known Member
For a $10-$100 spread you would want a total BR of $100 x 100 = $10,000 for a reasonable chance of staying afloat. A $1,000 BR would only be 10 max bets and would leave you with about a 60% chance of going broke. In general, your max bet should be around 1% of your total BR.
-Sonny-