Barred from NYNY

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xpress88

Member
#1
#1
I recently got barred from New York New York in Vegas while I was CCing in blackjack. I was using my M G M Mirage Player's card there and played for almost two hours and I was spreading from $10 to $150 and overall lost about $700 during that session.

My main question is, can I even use my players card anymore to get rated for blackjack at OTHER M G M Mirage casinos?
I understand that its unsafe for me to go back there but I'm wondering if my players card is flagged and I can't play at other M G M Mirage casinos, rated or unrated.

What happened was that, after two hours the casino manager came up to me and politely told me that I "can't play blackjack here anymore". He said I can play any other game except blackjack. I acted confused and played 5 minutes of craps and left right after.

I should also note that I was staying at comped rooms at the Monte Carlo (also part of M G M Mirage). I expected them to revoke my comps, but they didn't. And I played blackjack at the Monte Carlo afterwards for about 4 hours, unrated though. Also used my card when I played several hours at the Aria with blackjack switch (w/ CSM) and craps.
 
2

21forme

Well-Known Member
#2
#2
You should assume your card is toast.

If you want to be 100% sure, wait until the very end of your trip (assuming you're from out of town) and give them your card at another mgm house. Watch their reaction when then swipe it and look at the screen. They may just tell you "no BJ," or because you play relatively low limits, they may make a phone call or watch you for a bit.
 
aslan

aslan

Well-Known Member
#3
#3
21forme said:
You should assume your card is toast.

If you want to be 100% sure, wait until the very end of your trip (assuming you're from out of town) and give them your card at another mgm house. Watch their reaction when then swipe it and look at the screen. They may just tell you "no BJ," or because you play relatively low limits, they may make a phone call or watch you for a bit.
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I have a ploppy friend who always plays unrated even though they have begged him to get a card. At one place in AC the pit boss even gave him a player's card in the name of the pit boss's son just so they could have a record of his play. True story! This friend would never lie. The reason they watch him so closely is because he bets so wildly. If the table limit is $5,000, he may bet $1,250, and if he wins he may bet $2,500, then $5,000 if he wins again. :eek: :eek: He likes to be able to get to the house limit in three bets and only raises his bet if he wins. That's why they rate him so dangerous. :laugh: As you can imagine, he usually either wins big or loses big. :whip::whip:
 
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aslan

aslan

Well-Known Member
#4
#4
xpress88 said:
I recently got barred from New York New York in Vegas while I was CCing in blackjack. I was using my M G M Mirage Player's card there and played for almost two hours and I was spreading from $10 to $150 and overall lost about $700 during that session.

My main question is, can I even use my players card anymore to get rated for blackjack at OTHER M G M Mirage casinos?
I understand that its unsafe for me to go back there but I'm wondering if my players card is flagged and I can't play at other M G M Mirage casinos, rated or unrated.

What happened was that, after two hours the casino manager came up to me and politely told me that I "can't play blackjack here anymore". He said I can play any other game except blackjack. I acted confused and played 5 minutes of craps and left right after.

I should also note that I was staying at comped rooms at the Monte Carlo (also part of M G M Mirage). I expected them to revoke my comps, but they didn't. And I played blackjack at the Monte Carlo afterwards for about 4 hours, unrated though. Also used my card when I played several hours at the Aria with blackjack switch (w/ CSM) and craps.
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You are unrated here as well, which makes it prohibitive to share tips with you on avoiding player card heat. :(
 
Lonesome Gambler

Lonesome Gambler

Well-Known Member
#5
#5
The short answer to your question is that if the person that backed you off (not barred—it's vital to know the difference) entered the incident in the player rating system, then you will be listed as a counter at all MGM properties in Vegas, possible outside of Vegas (I'm not sure). If they just gave you a tap and told you to hit the road, there's a slight chance you're OK, but it's likely that your card is toast, like 21forme said.

And if you're backed off, why play craps? They already know you were counting, and a flimsy attempt at cover by playing 5 minutes of dice is not going to fool anyone. In addition, it gives surveillance more opportunity to get your picture and for various casino personnel to form a lasting impression of you (features, build, clothing, etc.). If you're backed off, just leave quietly.

NYNY: backed off for $10-$150 in under 2 hours. Sigh... times must be tight in Vegas these days.
 
aslan

aslan

Well-Known Member
#6
#6
Lonesome Gambler said:
The short answer to your question is that if the person that backed you off (not barred—it's vital to know the difference) entered the incident in the player rating system, then you will be listed as a counter at all MGM properties in Vegas, possible outside of Vegas (I'm not sure). If they just gave you a tap and told you to hit the road, there's a slight chance you're OK, but it's likely that your card is toast, like 21forme said.

And if you're backed off, why play craps? They already know you were counting, and a flimsy attempt at cover by playing 5 minutes of dice is not going to fool anyone. In addition, it gives surveillance more opportunity to get your picture and for various casino personnel to form a lasting impression of you (features, build, clothing, etc.). If you're backed off, just leave quietly.

NYNY: backed off for $10-$150 in under 2 hours. Sigh... times must be tight in Vegas these days.
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Is your knowledge of the player rating system certain? I've always wondered if the card system was designed to take such remarks, or whether such remarks were only in the casinos in-house computer system.
 
Lonesome Gambler

Lonesome Gambler

Well-Known Member
#7
#7
No, I only know that the MGM casinos in Vegas share information and that an identified AP's card will tip off a casino that the player was backed off in. I can't possibly see how comments like that would not be communicated between properties, given the absolute ease of implementing such a thing, but I can't say for certain—that's just been my understanding.
 
X

xpress88

Member
#8
#8
There were a lot of mistakes on my part as well I guess. I shouldn't have been spreading so wildly and playing craps afterwards was a bad idea.

Anyways I want to find out if theres anything marked on my card that lets the other casinos know that I've been backed off. What do you guys think is the safest way to find out without risking further harm? I'm mainly worried that if I go up to a casino and ask "anything suspicious on my card?" will escalate things and they would take and circulate my picture if they haven't already.
 
aslan

aslan

Well-Known Member
#9
#9
Lonesome Gambler said:
No, I only know that the MGM casinos in Vegas share information and that an identified AP's card will tip off a casino that the player was backed off in. I can't possibly see how comments like that would not be communicated between properties, given the absolute ease of implementing such a thing, but I can't say for certain—that's just been my understanding.
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I do know for certain that perceived serious threats are communicated to the sister casinos in the chain, but not sure about small time back-offs (nothing derogatory intended). I had the impression that being backed off was not certain to generate an APB, but like you say, it would be easy enough to implement. If the OP does as 21forme suggested, we may garner additional info from his experience.

On the absolute ease of implementation, I can picture surveillance crews pulling their hair out at the obvious ease of implementing an inter-store system (such as an expansion of the rating system), but which management does not see the value of (too much money to re-engineer, we get the big players anyway, aren't you guys ever satisfied? etc.) Grrrr! :flame: Those idiots upstairs!!! :whip::flame: :laugh: :laugh:
 
S

Sucker

Well-Known Member
#10
#10
aslan said:
Is your knowledge of the player rating system certain? I've always wondered if the card system was designed to take such remarks, or whether such remarks were only in the casinos in-house computer system.
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The answer to this question is an equivocal: YES.

While there ARE certain pages on the computer screen that can only be accessed by pit bosses; and other pages that can only be accessed by upper management; red flag comments about players are ALWAYS displayed on the first screen that pops up, and are available to ALL floor persons. And in MANY places these comments ARE written in red fonts!
 
2

21forme

Well-Known Member
#11
#11
Sucker said:
red flag comments about players are ALWAYS displayed on the first screen that pops up, and are available to ALL floor persons. And in MANY places these comments ARE written in red fonts!
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I recall one day I was checking into the Borg and got a look at the screen at the front desk. Flashing in RED at the top of the screen was CONFIRMED SKILLED PLAYER. It also has info about upgrades to suites, etc. The hotel check-in babes apparently didn't care, but I knew not to use that card in the casino :laugh:

Also, getting back to checking out your card status, sometimes it's helpful to have a friend watch the actions of the pit after you hand them your card. I've enlisted the aid of an AP friend a few times when I wasn't sure if my card was busted.
 
A

assume_R

Well-Known Member
#12
#12
21forme said:
I recall one day I was checking into the Borg and got a look at the screen at the front desk. Flashing in RED at the top of the screen was CONFIRMED SKILLED PLAYER. It also has info about upgrades to suites, etc. The hotel check-in babes apparently didn't care, but I knew not to use that card in the casino :laugh:
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Did you ever receive heat there? Or do you think they could "confirm a skilled player" yet let him play and see what happens? Because I wonder just because I haven't gotten any direct heat that I know of there, should I still be worried?
 
2

21forme

Well-Known Member
#13
#13
assume_R said:
Did you ever receive heat there? Or do you think they could "confirm a skilled player" yet let him play and see what happens? Because I wonder just because I haven't gotten any direct heat that I know of there, should I still be worried?
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Heat and half-shoed. If they are on to you, they will let you know.
 
E

eandre

Well-Known Member
#14
#14
Express 88- your card is toast and points were probably invalid within 15 minutes. You will never be able to play at any related property with your card. I experienced this first hand and have even been barred from playing Spanish 21 within moments of presenting my card years later. They never ask you to leave any comped room if you are simply backed off from playing blackjack because they hope you play something else like Craps. Just play without a card and learn a valuable lesson. Don't you hate getting backed off even when you are losing?
 
aslan

aslan

Well-Known Member
#16
#16
Sucker said:
The answer to this question is an equivocal: YES.

While there ARE certain pages on the computer screen that can only be accessed by pit bosses; and other pages that can only be accessed by upper management; red flag comments about players are ALWAYS displayed on the first screen that pops up, and are available to ALL floor persons. And in MANY places these comments ARE written in red fonts!
Click to expand...
We may be talking at cross purposes. I know what is on the computer screens at a given casino, but does that same information also port to the sister casinos? It's one thing to have an inter-casino comp system (dollar comps, tier points, etc.), but to share everything with everybody might be another thing. For example, there is upper management of your home casino, and there is upper management of the sister casinos. Each casino has it's own policies and procedures, and reporting requirements. Some information I'd guess is kept within a casino's home computer system, while other things, like player card comps, may be shared with sister casinos. I still don't know for sure what each casino shares. The reason I am making this an issue is that I have inside information that one casino does not always share certain counter information with other casinos. Does anyone have any knowledge of the design of these computer systems, both intra-house and inter-house? Some of this should perhaps be limited to PM.
 
X

xpress88

Member
#17
#17
Thanks for the information everyone. I don't mind not being able to be rated for playing at just NYNY, but being unable to be rated at half the strip casinos was what I was hoping to avoid.

I'm going to try and confirm for sure whether or not my card is flagged in the near future.

I was also thinking of making another players card through a different name. Not sure about fake id but I heard that you could use a credit card to do it. Anyone know anything more about this?
 
moo321

moo321

Well-Known Member
#18
#18
Your card is probably toast. But it MAY be perfectly fine. Every once in awhile you'll get a backoff, and they'll forget to put it into the system...
 
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