ArthurDental
Member
The one in Bucks County, PA... Wondering if I should go this week but I don't even know if they have blackjack yet. Thanks for any info.
Blackjack at Parx? What are the house rules?
- Thread starter ArthurDental
- Start date
ricky ricardo
New Member
Parx BJ rules
All BJ games are S17,DOA, DAS,splitx2 for a total of 3 hands(except aces which can only be split once) and LS. The table games begin at 6AM on 7/18. All BJ games are 6 or 8 decks.
All BJ games are S17,DOA, DAS,splitx2 for a total of 3 hands(except aces which can only be split once) and LS. The table games begin at 6AM on 7/18. All BJ games are 6 or 8 decks.
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ArthurDental
Member
Thanks!
With the high tax rates I thought the rules would be bad... What are the limits, and would they use CSMs? It's 3:2 on BJs, I presume?
With the high tax rates I thought the rules would be bad... What are the limits, and would they use CSMs? It's 3:2 on BJs, I presume?
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junior_counter
Active Member
Parx blew it.
Visited Parx this past Sunday evening. This casino could have really had an edge over worsening Atlantic City conditions, but didn't take advantage of it. Good rules as mentioned in a previous post, S17, 3:2 blackjack, etc... Unfortunately, the casino took a different approach to combat counting and made blackjack games more player unfriendly in a non-traditional type of display.
Three different blackjack table styles:
1) Continuous shuffling machines (CSM). Walked right past those.
2) Non-CSM, 8 (or 6?, not quite sure) deck, hand/machine(non-CSM) shuffled games. But get this- they do not have a discard tray, and the shoe is covered. That way a player can not see how much of the shoe is remaining. The dealt cards go in a slot in the table. When the cut card comes out of the shoe, the dealt cards are taken from under the table, shuffled, and placed back in the capped shoe. Approximately 75% penetration, but is irrelevant.
3) The last, and only chance of advantage for a counter, is 8 (or 6?) deck w/ a discard tray, normal open top shoe, and hand/machine(non-CSM) shuffled. However, bets and card play are done electronically. Players make decisions on a touch pad screen in front of them. The problem with this of course, is software can easily monitor players decisions, bets, according to count. Thus, spot counters more easier then traditional means.
Place was packed, and all tables were $25 min and up.
For any player, even for non advantage players, CSMs tend to be avoided, as players are learning of the disadvantages. Those non-CSM, non discard tray, covered shoes are a nuisance for all casual players because people want to know when the shoe will end. Finally, the electronic versions may not be well taken, because of the absence of traditional chips a player gets to fiddle around with.
As of this posting, Trump Plaza and the Borgata in AC have the best rules and best play compared to Parx, and other AC casinos.
If I were a casino owner/executive, I'd make great rules and widely advertise them! Clearly show the advantage of my house rules over the competitions. Even the typical non-advantage, casual player can understand plain, simple numbers of house edge and how they won't lose as much money as fast.
What does an AC casino got to lose? They are on the path to go under anyway, and some may declare bankruptcy sooner then later. Take a chance and go beyond the competition. Is a casino really going to lose more money to advantage players, then the increase in take from casual players knowing they are playing a better game? If this is attempted by a dying casino and fails, what difference did it make? None. The company was facing closure anyway. If the casino takes this approach and turns things around, they have achieved great success.
Visited Parx this past Sunday evening. This casino could have really had an edge over worsening Atlantic City conditions, but didn't take advantage of it. Good rules as mentioned in a previous post, S17, 3:2 blackjack, etc... Unfortunately, the casino took a different approach to combat counting and made blackjack games more player unfriendly in a non-traditional type of display.
Three different blackjack table styles:
1) Continuous shuffling machines (CSM). Walked right past those.
2) Non-CSM, 8 (or 6?, not quite sure) deck, hand/machine(non-CSM) shuffled games. But get this- they do not have a discard tray, and the shoe is covered. That way a player can not see how much of the shoe is remaining. The dealt cards go in a slot in the table. When the cut card comes out of the shoe, the dealt cards are taken from under the table, shuffled, and placed back in the capped shoe. Approximately 75% penetration, but is irrelevant.
3) The last, and only chance of advantage for a counter, is 8 (or 6?) deck w/ a discard tray, normal open top shoe, and hand/machine(non-CSM) shuffled. However, bets and card play are done electronically. Players make decisions on a touch pad screen in front of them. The problem with this of course, is software can easily monitor players decisions, bets, according to count. Thus, spot counters more easier then traditional means.
Place was packed, and all tables were $25 min and up.
For any player, even for non advantage players, CSMs tend to be avoided, as players are learning of the disadvantages. Those non-CSM, non discard tray, covered shoes are a nuisance for all casual players because people want to know when the shoe will end. Finally, the electronic versions may not be well taken, because of the absence of traditional chips a player gets to fiddle around with.
As of this posting, Trump Plaza and the Borgata in AC have the best rules and best play compared to Parx, and other AC casinos.
If I were a casino owner/executive, I'd make great rules and widely advertise them! Clearly show the advantage of my house rules over the competitions. Even the typical non-advantage, casual player can understand plain, simple numbers of house edge and how they won't lose as much money as fast.
What does an AC casino got to lose? They are on the path to go under anyway, and some may declare bankruptcy sooner then later. Take a chance and go beyond the competition. Is a casino really going to lose more money to advantage players, then the increase in take from casual players knowing they are playing a better game? If this is attempted by a dying casino and fails, what difference did it make? None. The company was facing closure anyway. If the casino takes this approach and turns things around, they have achieved great success.
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Parx seem to be a little different from the two that I have been to. Hollywood in Grantville near Harrisburg and Sands Bethleham. They both have open shoe top with discard rack, 70-80 pen, s17 etc. with the normal chips in hand betting. I suggest coming over to Sands if you are in between Parx and Sands.
Automatic Monkey
Banned
That's not much of a countermeasure.
The ones I have been to are not true. I did saw them using the top cover as a guideline so like i say about 70-80 pen.
junior_counter
Active Member
How can one still accurately count at these tables, other than learning KO blackjack?
Having a side count of total cards dealt would be too taxing. Please elaborate. Thx.
Played at Park today. $15 table from noon to 2 then $25. 6 decks, ASM, concealed shoe, slot in table for cards, don't/won't show burn card, real chips not electronic. Slot in shoe, cards cut after put in shoe. About 1 1/2 deck penetration. Pit boss kept saying 8 decks but no way. ASM may have been calibrated for 8 decks because after a few hours rhey gave the dealer a plastic piece about 2 decks thick to put on top of the cards after he put them in the ASM. Also came to appreciate the surrender option.
Automatic Monkey
Banned
What's wrong with KO? (I'd choose BRH-1 myself.)
Unbalanced counts in RC mode have the nice feature of not ever having to look at the shoe or discards. I play pitch games that way because you can't have your deck estimation deceived by the way the dealer holds the cards.
blackjack avenger
Well-Known Member
Running Balanced
Any balanced count you can use in RC mode.:joker::whip:
Any balanced count you can use in RC mode.:joker::whip:
Automatic Monkey
Banned
Yeah but that's pretty weak in a shoe game.
blackjack avenger
Well-Known Member
Great Way to Garner Confidence in a Fair Game
So the players don't see the cards in the shoe?
Then the cards are dropped in a slot out of sight?
Let the fear of cheating begin!:joker::whip:
These covered shoes probably won't last, when people start losing they will think they are being cheated, and who is to say they aren't?:joker::whip:
So the players don't see the cards in the shoe?
Then the cards are dropped in a slot out of sight?
Let the fear of cheating begin!:joker::whip:
These covered shoes probably won't last, when people start losing they will think they are being cheated, and who is to say they aren't?:joker::whip:
BillytheBJkid
Well-Known Member
I was there today. I estimated that 3 rounds with 5 players and the dealer where about a deck. I don't know if that was close or not but seemed to line up about right with shuffle point most times.
blackjack avenger
Well-Known Member
Depends on the Count
I imagine the stronger counts can hold up well without TC conversion. Of course I would just keep track of cards played and still TC, even a rough estimate won't be a big problem.:joker::whip:
I imagine the stronger counts can hold up well without TC conversion. Of course I would just keep track of cards played and still TC, even a rough estimate won't be a big problem.:joker::whip:
Automatic Monkey
Banned
You can TC if you want, but a balanced RC system isn't a good thing for 6D, despite the fact that you can get some kind of an advantage out of it. A Halves RC of +10 with 5 decks left is nothing to get excited over. But with 2 decks left, RC=+10 is time for a black chip. Either overbetting or wasted EV opportunity.
Just knowing whether you're in the first half or the second half of the shoe would be a big improvement, but if you're going to do that, I think it would be better to just not count the 9 and then you have unbalanced BRH-1 which is as good as any TC system.
blackjack avenger
Well-Known Member
Interesting
Brh1 is interesting. I believe Cac stated it performs similar to ubz2. Halves according to Qfit outperforms ubz2 in shoes. I think I would just estimate decks played and use halves; instead of learning a new system, even if very similar. Being off by 1 won't hurt the indices much and one's bet ramp is often not sim perfect anyway for different reasons. I think I can maintain virtually all the strength of halves without learning a new system.
However, If I get old and lazy brh1 may be useful:joker::whip:
Also, we are talking about a rare playing situation; for me, so even if sloppy for a few sessions it won't mean much to my total play.
Brh1 is interesting. I believe Cac stated it performs similar to ubz2. Halves according to Qfit outperforms ubz2 in shoes. I think I would just estimate decks played and use halves; instead of learning a new system, even if very similar. Being off by 1 won't hurt the indices much and one's bet ramp is often not sim perfect anyway for different reasons. I think I can maintain virtually all the strength of halves without learning a new system.
However, If I get old and lazy brh1 may be useful:joker::whip:
Also, we are talking about a rare playing situation; for me, so even if sloppy for a few sessions it won't mean much to my total play.
ricky ricardo
New Member
2) Non-CSM, 8 (or 6?, not quite sure) deck, hand/machine(non-CSM) shuffled games. But get this- they do not have a discard tray, and the shoe is covered. That way a player can not see how much of the shoe is remaining. The dealt cards go in a slot in the table. When the cut card comes out of the shoe, the dealt cards are taken from under the table, shuffled, and placed back in the capped shoe. Approximately 75% penetration, but is irrelevant.