Buy in camouflage and other.

[AnIrishmannot2brite]

I've noticed that green chips in fairly large stacks go almost unnoticed by dealers and pit crew compared to the black chips laid in singles. The dealer always calls in a black.

That so I decided recently to buy in at several tables prior to "going to work". At these preliminary tables I collect green and some red chips, play a while and then switch tables where I buy in again for a couple hundred with the old chips ratholed. By the time I'm really ready to go I may have six hundred or more in chips with no blacks.

When I attack a table I may spend the first shuffle chit chatting w/ the dealer. Especially if it is one I know. I may not even count the deck and just flat bet basic strategy. I usually only play hand held games as the large shoes take forever to get warm. While engaging in idle chat I may ask how the dealers family/job,new baby etc is doing. Might even play a small wager just for them.

When i do get serious I still talk to the dealer but in in short, pre planned rehearsed talk. No long lingering discussion. If I do get caught up with an overly chatty dealer i just give up on the counting and flat bet. In the hand held games this causes little problem as the next shuffle is always around the bend.

I choose single and double deck games either heads up or with one other player. This takes some planning as on Saturday nites all the tables may be full. So weekdays are a good time to pull this off. Especially at Indian casinos. I don't shy away from a 6:5 game so long as there are few other players and it is a single deck. Again: Maximum two players including Irish. So long as the table is sparse I do not find 6:5 single deck unprofitable.

By talking my fool head off, toking a bit after a good round I can get away with a 1 - 20 unit bet swing. Sometimes I play two spots right off the top of the shuffle just to make the REAL two spot plays less noticeable. When playing a camouflage bet off the top I stack a bunch of reds fairly high. It looks large but may only be thirty bucks on two spots.

Later I like to bury my greens under the reds to show the same large stack but with much more money in play.

So long as I don't try and force anything to happen I usually win a decent total at the end of the evening. In fact the only times I lose or break even seem to be those times when I play with too many players at the table. This can happen when I'm stressing or playing too long.

The table ultimately never beats me but I can beat myself.

 

[1357111317]

You are going to get crucified for trying to count a 6:5 blackjack game on here unless you are holecarding and rightly so. Even with a 1-20 spread you are going to experience HUGE varience. Maybe if they are dealing 75% pen then you might be able to squeak out a small advantage but other than that you shouldn't be playing 6:5 let alone worrying about cover.

 

[EasyRhino]

The table ultimately never beats me but I can beat myself.

Yes, yes you can.

a) If you're a "regular" at the place, then there's no need to secretly assemble a stack of chips before you play. They already know who you are.

b) You want to be at the point where you can talk - naturally - during any portion of the game. Not just low counts. Shutting down like a broken audio animatronic robot isn't usually good camo.

c) 6:5? Really? Do you honestly think you can get an advantage on that by straight counting?

 

[takinfromindians97]

You sound kind of like you are still a rookie if you are not able to count when a dealer talks to you and what not. I recomend fixing this problem before you play much more the fact that your not counting all the time is lowering your +EV, especially the games your playing you need all the advantage you can get!!! Before you hit the casino you should be flawless at your count and be able to do it on the 50 yard line during the halftime show and not bat an eye. You also sound a bit like you have superstitions and go by a bit of voodoo, maybe im wrong but if im right this is another area that should be tended to, as it is not good for you in the end. It may seem to work for you sometimes but its just you rationalizing it after the fact and picking out the times you win and pushing the losses out of your head with some reason that you deem ok. I think you should read a few good books on blackjack, maybe ones specific to the count you use and a few others. "blackjack attack", "the theory of blackjack", "Blackbelt in blackjack", "the card counters guide to casino serveillence" are all great books that any card counter should read and a ton more come to mind that are great reads to check out also( PM me if youd like a more exstensive list. I hope you dont take this as rude or making fun just trying to steer you a little bit in the right direction..

ALSO I agree with everyone else in saying to stay away from the 6:5 games the way a card counter makes most of his money is on doubles, splits, and blackjacks. The dealer is always going to win way more hands then us we depend on those blackjacks, they are vital to us coming out on top in the end. Take her easy buddy

 

[kewljason]

Advantage play means you want to play at an advantage as much as possible. Between the 6-5 blackjack and the flat betting no counting sessions (aka gambling) you are playing way too much in negative situations. Even with a large spread you are going to have a hard time getting into positive expected value territory.

I am also wondering why you would want to post the specifics of your plan of attack on a public board. I dont see any advantage in that either. Seems like giving your opponent your game plan.

 

[SleightOfHand]

I am also wondering why you would want to post the specifics of your plan of attack on a public board. I dont see any advantage in that either. Seems like giving your opponent your game plan.

What does one expect from an Irish man not too bright?

 

[Sonny]

a) If you're a "regular" at the place, then there's no need to secretly assemble a stack of chips before you play. They already know who you are.

And you probably already have a stockpile of chips from your previous sessions.

-Sonny-

 

[takinfromindians97]

kinda off subject but kinda not. A reason why i try to make friends with all of the pitbosses and pit personal are as follows. They are less likely to approach you if they suspect something, and they certainly will not give you any heat, they will need strait up proof. So i dunno where i was going with this i just saw someone writing about being well know in the casinos, so i addd my little piece here.

 

[johndoe]

kinda off subject but kinda not. A reason why i try to make friends with all of the pitbosses and pit personal are as follows. They are less likely to approach you if they suspect something, and they certainly will not give you any heat, they will need strait up proof. So i dunno where i was going with this i just saw someone writing about being well know in the casinos, so i addd my little piece here.

I agree with you completely. It's not going to be foolproof, but having the pit folks and dealers like you helps tremendously. They're the ones that call upstairs for any suspicious playing, make notes in your file, determine your comps, etc. Plus, it costs nothing, and makes the whole time more enjoyable.

I always go out of my way to be nice, crack jokes with them, and laugh at their bad jokes (as well as my good and bad fortunes..)

 

[kewljason]

A reason why i try to make friends with all of the pitbosses and pit personal are as follows. They are less likely to approach you if they suspect something, and they certainly will not give you any heat, they will need strait up proof.

Really?? you are friends with the pit bosses? You go out drinking with them after their shifts? Do they have you over to their house for sunday dinner? Maybe you vacation together. They are not your friend! Its their job! Just because you are friendly or share a laugh with them, I dont think they will put their career in jeopardy by going easy on you or not giving you heat.

 

[takinfromindians97]

Really?? you are friends with the pit bosses? You go out drinking with them after their shifts? Do they have you over to their house for sunday dinner? Maybe you vacation together. They are not your friend! Its their job! Just because you are friendly or share a laugh with them, I dont think they will put their career in jeopardy by going easy on you or not giving you heat.

I actually am friends with a few pit bosses or pit personal at foxwoods and mohegan. A couple friends of mine used to work there so actually smart ass I have gone and had drinks with them or a meal actually one time we went skiing with a couple mohegan sun employess.I own a very large wholesale business and part of a restaurant, I meet and am friends with many people from all walks of life and all sorts of powerful position type people company owners, ceos, lawyers, i know a judge or two who actually have had me over for a dinner party or two. So unlike you who is a nerd and could never be friends with pitbosses cause why the hell would they, let alone anyone want to be friends with a weird, snotty little punk who talks about things he has no idea about. Nice try though jerk sit at home in ur moms basement touching yourself to lord of the rings paraphernalia, and cry about how your still a virgin and get picked on to this day like highschool never ended. This is the reason i love the BJ BASH i get to see all you little **** talkers and see if you talk then.

 

[kewljason]

I actually am friends with a few pit bosses or pit personal at foxwoods and mohegan. A couple friends of mine used to work there so actually smart ass I have gone and had drinks with them or a meal actually one time we went skiing with a couple mohegan sun employess.I own a very large wholesale business and part of a restaurant, I meet and am friends with many people from all walks of life and all sorts of powerful position type people company owners, ceos, lawyers, i know a judge or two who actually have had me over for a dinner party or two. So unlike you who is a nerd and could never be friends with pitbosses cause why the hell would they, let alone anyone want to be friends with a weird, snotty little punk who talks about things he has no idea about. Nice try though jerk sit at home in ur moms basement touching yourself to lord of the rings paraphernalia, and cry about how your still a virgin and get picked on to this day like highschool never ended. This is the reason i love the BJ BASH i get to see all you little **** talkers and see if you talk then.

wow. Personal attack. Very mature response from someone who is such an important and powerful person. Shows true class. Very helpful to those of us posting here hoping to have a beneficial discussion. Why so bitter?

 

[Bojack1]

I actually am friends with a few pit bosses or pit personal at foxwoods and mohegan. A couple friends of mine used to work there so actually smart ass I have gone and had drinks with them or a meal actually one time we went skiing with a couple mohegan sun employess.I own a very large wholesale business and part of a restaurant, I meet and am friends with many people from all walks of life and all sorts of powerful position type people company owners, ceos, lawyers, i know a judge or two who actually have had me over for a dinner party or two. So unlike you who is a nerd and could never be friends with pitbosses cause why the hell would they, let alone anyone want to be friends with a weird, snotty little punk who talks about things he has no idea about. Nice try though jerk sit at home in ur moms basement touching yourself to lord of the rings paraphernalia, and cry about how your still a virgin and get picked on to this day like highschool never ended. This is the reason i love the BJ BASH i get to see all you little **** talkers and see if you talk then.

Sorry CP and sage, but this kind of nonsense is exactly why you will not find me at any kind of BJ Bash that invites any who wish to attend. Its this kind of mentality that turns me off to meeting supposed AP's from these forums. Unless, someone I know vouches for someone, its not worth it to me to associate with this kind of ego. I admit I have what I believe to be a well deserved ego myself, but it is not one you will find making threats and insults for such minor inconsequential things. I need not be in earshot of someone shouting to the rafters of there greatness or toughness. I have seen a lot of both kinds, never once did they have to tell me for me to know.

 

[kewljason]

Sorry CP and sage, but this kind of nonsense is exactly why you will not find me at any kind of BJ Bash that invites any who wish to attend. Its this kind of mentality that turns me off to meeting supposed AP's from these forums. Unless, someone I know vouches for someone, its not worth it to me to associate with this kind of ego. I admit I have what I believe to be a well deserved ego myself, but it is not one you will find making threats and insults for such minor inconsequential things. I need not be in earshot of someone shouting to the rafters of there greatness or toughness. I have seen a lot of both kinds, never once did they have to tell me for me to know.

Spoken like a true gentleman.

 

[sagefr0g]

Sorry CP and sage, but this kind of nonsense is exactly why you will not find me at any kind of BJ Bash that invites any who wish to attend. Its this kind of mentality that turns me off to meeting supposed AP's from these forums. Unless, someone I know vouches for someone, its not worth it to me to associate with this kind of ego. I admit I have what I believe to be a well deserved ego myself, but it is not one you will find making threats and insults for such minor inconsequential things. I need not be in earshot of someone shouting to the rafters of there greatness or toughness. I have seen a lot of both kinds, never once did they have to tell me for me to know.

yes, entirely understandable Bojack. while security is an issue that we address, just speaking for myself i'd say that the level of security that you require would put the responsibility on you to see to it that level is met.

just a story of my own personal experience when i was living in southern Florida and playing blackjack reguarly on the Sea Escape for several years. it was the only venue with in reasonable travel distance for me. it was a lucrative joint for me and i hit it hard and heavy. i had a friend that i'd often talk to about my adventures on the Sea Escape. i even tried to convince him to become proficient at blackjack so we could team play.
well a long story short, our friendship blew up. don't you know i spent some sweaty times wondering if he was going to out me on that boat.

 

[bruisedlee]

On the subject:

Recently I jokingly asked the pit how much I was ahead. The answer was "I only know for this month - $1400."

Ooops!

So I started rat-holing green for a day.

That day I lost $300 and the next day asked how much I lost. The answer was "You lost $1005."

Too much: so now I rat-hole about 1 green per hour, my expected win.

Hopefully this will hide my winnings

PS - Cailfornia Indian Casino

Brruisedlee

 

[EasyRhino]

Too much: so now I rat-hole about 1 green per hour, my expected win.

That only gets you to even. Remember, you're expected to lose.

 

[UncrownedKing]

That only gets you to even. Remember, you're expected to lose.

I read in an another thread that ratholing 2x your EV was recommended.

 

[shadroch]

Really?? you are friends with the pit bosses? You go out drinking with them after their shifts? Do they have you over to their house for sunday dinner? Maybe you vacation together. They are not your friend! Its their job! Just because you are friendly or share a laugh with them, I dont think they will put their career in jeopardy by going easy on you or not giving you heat.

Why is it so unusual to have friends in the casino business? Especially in a small town like Atlantic City where everyone eventually knows almost everybody. I'm friends with a number of pit bosses,and suits. I recently attended the wedding of the son of a Harrahs manager and was seated at a table full of casino execs. We spent some time discussing casinos,they were very interested in my take on Vegas and other markets. Obviously I didn't tell them the extent of my involvement, but the manager that invited me to the wedding knows I'm a card counter. Every one of these friendships was struck playing pool or darts in bars that depend on casino workers as their bread and butter.
As far as them putting their jobs on the line by not giving me heat, I wouldn't expect that. By the same token,I'm pretty sure most of them would give me a heads up to hit the road before my play became an issue.

 

[kewljason]

Of course you are right Shadrock, it is possible to have friends in the business. But as you stated, your friendships were forged outside the casino enviornment. I was referring to a post that stated, "I try to make friends with all of the pit bosses, so they will not give me any heat". And even this I guess is possible, but much less likely.

I have no problem with takinfromindians disagreement with me and would have liked to seen the discussion of the pros and cons of this strategy. (cons such as the pit critter that you are friendly with moving to a different casino, where he uses this info to get in good with his new employer) Instead I got name-calling and talk of touching myself in my mothers basement while crying about being a virgin.