DownUnderWonder
Active Member
Anyone know the rules and conditions at the Sofitel Reef Casino in Cairns?
Cairns Casino
- Thread starter DownUnderWonder
- Start date
StudiodeKadent
Well-Known Member
From what I saw on their website, its the same conditions as you get at Jupiters, Treasury and Jupiters Townsville.
6 Deck, CSM, S17, DAS, D9-11, Split Once Only, OBO if Dealer BJ's, House edge 0.55%
Not what I'd call a good game but its slightly better than Sydney and far better than Crown Melbourne's H17 tripe.
DownUnderWonder
Active Member
Thanks for the reply. If it is CSM that sucks, any idea if they have shoes in the VIP room?
StudiodeKadent
Well-Known Member
I've never been to their VIP room (mainly because I'm a low-rolling BS player), but AFAIK VIP rooms in Australia usually deal from shoes. However, it is probably an 8 deck shoe rather than a 6 deck shoe. Tabcorp casinos have been known to use 8 D shoes (Star City for instance) on their shoe games.
I should add that I get this information from the Reef's website. I haven't been there IRL, but their how-to-play brochure is identical to the Jupiters/Treasury ones.
Again, I don't know from first-hand experience of the casino in Cairns, but the Pontoon game in Tabcorp casinos, at least on the main floor, tends to be CSM-dealt (based on my experience at the Treasury). And they put the cards back into the CSM after every hand, there's no discard tray.
Tabcorp has a history of intimidation against AP's, and using utterly brutal 'game protection' methods all the bloody time. Plus they won't even let me in to their casinos any more since I'm gothic and my boots are allegedly dangerous.
The only thing that makes Tabcorp better than Crown is that Tabcorp stand on soft 17 at their blackjack tables. Crown hits, unless you are playing for silly money.
Katweezel
Well-Known Member
Original bet returned
Tabcorp has something good that Crown doesn't. Original bet returned on your splits or doubles V Dealer ace, if dealer makes blackjack.
Your boots are dangerous they reckon? That was back in July, SK. Are you still considered dangerous with those boots? Did they think you might kick a dealer to death, kick a BJ table, or even better, a pitboss or a bouncer?
Tabcorp has something good that Crown doesn't. Original bet returned on your splits or doubles V Dealer ace, if dealer makes blackjack.
Cairns Casino is not using CSMs at present
6 Deck, CSM, S17, DAS, D9-11, Split Once Only, OBO if Dealer BJ's, House edge 0.55%
All correct except for one vital detail.
They don't use CSMs on the blackjack tables at present in Cairns.
I think they've come to the conclusion that CSMs cost money...cutting the house edge by 0.22% on basic strategy.
The odd competent card counter who actually wins is a rarity in reality.
CSMs cost casinos money on blackjack in most cases by reducing their edge on the majority of people...regular players who don't count or players who think they can count but actually aren't very good at it.
Deck penetration is usually around the 4 1/2 deck level on a 6 deck shoe.
Ocassionally you might see a dealer go out to 4 3/4 or 5 decks but it's uncommon.
Mid shoe entry and a little table hopping in Cairns is common place.
Some pit bosses are more strict than others.
Many of the bosses are alternating from being a dealer to being a pit boss so there's large variation.
Writing anything down at the table is not allowed and enforced.
They're more nervous about their $50 min limit table than all the other tables (which are $20 min limit).
I've seen some pros work the tables but they're smart...not playing for more than an hour and disappearing like ghosts. They're also sticking to the $20 tables.
Far more scrutiny is given to the $50 table.
I doubt you'd get much heat at all as long as you were only betting up to around $200 a hand, not playing for more than an hour at a time and not leaving with mounds of chips in one session.
$20 to $180 should be a big enough spread to make a very modest profit counting.
Wonging with a few spotters on busy nights (Thursday, Friday and Saturday nights) should be possible and makes it a more realistic proposition.
Couples watching the play or playing together with only one betting is common.
Groups of friends playing together (and often winning) is also common being a tourist town.
Cairns is a friendly Casino and the staff are professional.
The blackjack tables are usually friendly places which can be a nice change from some casinos.
You might make a modest profit and have some fun.
6 Deck, CSM, S17, DAS, D9-11, Split Once Only, OBO if Dealer BJ's, House edge 0.55%
All correct except for one vital detail.
They don't use CSMs on the blackjack tables at present in Cairns.
I think they've come to the conclusion that CSMs cost money...cutting the house edge by 0.22% on basic strategy.
The odd competent card counter who actually wins is a rarity in reality.
CSMs cost casinos money on blackjack in most cases by reducing their edge on the majority of people...regular players who don't count or players who think they can count but actually aren't very good at it.
Deck penetration is usually around the 4 1/2 deck level on a 6 deck shoe.
Ocassionally you might see a dealer go out to 4 3/4 or 5 decks but it's uncommon.
Mid shoe entry and a little table hopping in Cairns is common place.
Some pit bosses are more strict than others.
Many of the bosses are alternating from being a dealer to being a pit boss so there's large variation.
Writing anything down at the table is not allowed and enforced.
They're more nervous about their $50 min limit table than all the other tables (which are $20 min limit).
I've seen some pros work the tables but they're smart...not playing for more than an hour and disappearing like ghosts. They're also sticking to the $20 tables.
Far more scrutiny is given to the $50 table.
I doubt you'd get much heat at all as long as you were only betting up to around $200 a hand, not playing for more than an hour at a time and not leaving with mounds of chips in one session.
$20 to $180 should be a big enough spread to make a very modest profit counting.
Wonging with a few spotters on busy nights (Thursday, Friday and Saturday nights) should be possible and makes it a more realistic proposition.
Couples watching the play or playing together with only one betting is common.
Groups of friends playing together (and often winning) is also common being a tourist town.
Cairns is a friendly Casino and the staff are professional.
The blackjack tables are usually friendly places which can be a nice change from some casinos.
You might make a modest profit and have some fun.
Card counters are a profit center for most casinos
On the topic of card counters if you really understand risk of ruin then you should also understand that the average casino should be welcoming beginning and even ok card counters to their blackjack tables.
The liklihood is they'll go bust almost as quickly as their regular patrons...in some cases even faster (just comes down to standard deviation).
Most people just don't have a big enough bankroll to survive the fluctuations or if they're using a "replinishable" bankroll they get discouraged and give up after going down a few grand.
Just banning people because they seem to exhibit the behavior of counters is unecessary in most cases.
Casinos should just give standard deviation a chance to wipe them out.
You can always ban someone when he starts making more serious profits.
On the topic of card counters if you really understand risk of ruin then you should also understand that the average casino should be welcoming beginning and even ok card counters to their blackjack tables.
The liklihood is they'll go bust almost as quickly as their regular patrons...in some cases even faster (just comes down to standard deviation).
Most people just don't have a big enough bankroll to survive the fluctuations or if they're using a "replinishable" bankroll they get discouraged and give up after going down a few grand.
Just banning people because they seem to exhibit the behavior of counters is unecessary in most cases.
Casinos should just give standard deviation a chance to wipe them out.
You can always ban someone when he starts making more serious profits.
StudiodeKadent
Well-Known Member
I'm surprised to hear they are using shoes on tables in Cairns. The CSM does lower the house edge (by 0.02% on a 6 deck game, not 0.22%, by the way). But they do mean you don't have to shuffle (thus speeding up the game). Of course, you can use an ASM + Shoe to cut down shuffle time, which costs a lot less than CSMs.
I'd expect in a low-volume casino like Cairns that the benefits of game speed and protection would be outweighed by the high cost of a CSM. The only advantage of a CSM vs. ASM+Shoe is game protection, and the only areas where card counters do genuinely pose a long term threat are high limit rooms. And these rooms can solve the problem simply by having 4-deck pen on a six deck game.
But this is the Australian casino market. Sanity does not exist in it.
SleightOfHand
Well-Known Member
Yea, they are the one's with the 'roos and the kiwis right? They should get Arnold Schwartzeneggar to beat those Nazi bastards out of their country! That will fix the games! Wait, now Im confused. You guys are the Sound of Music people? jk
Katweezel
Well-Known Member
The hills are alive
Hey Sleight, Arnie is pleased to help. Good idea you had there mate! We need to get rid of some casino bums bigtime down here...Yea, they are the one's with the 'roos and the kiwis right? They should get Arnold Schwartzeneggar to beat those Nazi bastards out of their country! That will fix the games! Wait, now Im confused. You guys are the Sound of Music people? jk
