Can casino dealers talk/met up with customers off hours?

bjo32

Well-Known Member
#21
Hell'nBack said:
Totally stupid topic.
Why would you copy my post with your response? I didn't start the topic, I was just giving accurate answers to ted money's question. I saw that he was getting incorrect replies from several posters, and wanted to set the record straight. For the record, there is no problem dating a dealer if she wants to go out with you. This has nothing to do with being an AP. It comes down to does she want to go out with you.

Btw, there is more important things in life than trying to make money counting cards. Who knows ted money might have found his life long soul mate dealing cards. I was trying to give him the green light to go for it!
 

Dummy

Well-Known Member
#22
bjo32 said:
Why would you copy my post with your response? I didn't start the topic, I was just giving accurate answers to ted money's question. I saw that he was getting incorrect replies from several posters, and wanted to set the record straight. For the record, there is no problem dating a dealer if she wants to go out with you. This has nothing to do with being an AP. It comes down to does she want to go out with you.
If they can prove collusion, whether it actually happened or not , you will both go to jail or face other serious repercussions.
 

bjo32

Well-Known Member
#23
Dummy said:
If they can prove collusion, whether it actually happened or not , you will both go to jail or face other serious repercussions
What??? This post makes no sense. How can they PROVE collusion if it didn't happen? To PROVE something it had to happen.

"To go to jail or face other serious repercussions" someone has to cheat or commit fraud. Dating someone does not qualify as either one of these.
 

bjo32

Well-Known Member
#24
Rebecca C said:
Trying to date a dealer is a bad idea for so many reasons I'm surprised it's getting any serious discussion. You don't know who the girl is related to or who she might blab to about you. Think about it. And using feminine wiles to increase tips is surely not a novel approach lol. There are so many ways to meet girls; don't crap where you eat.
Rebecca, the OP is not saying he wants to tell this dealer his life story and reveal he's an AP. He just wants to go on a date with her because he feels they have a connection.

Yes, there are many ways to meet a girl, but each one is different. Who knows, this one might be his life long soul mate. The only way he'll know is if goes on a date with her.

I don't agree with your analogy that dating a dealer is similar to craping where you work. It comes with risks, just like dating a coworker at work, but there can also be a huge payoff. Bill Gates was CEO of Microsoft when he took a risk and asked a young girl at his company out on a date. She first refused but then said yes. After 7 years of dating, they got married and have a happy life with children. How do we know the same thing won't happen with ted money? If he feels a spark with the dealer, he should go for it!

One thing I agree with you is that he shouldn't blab about being an AP, even after he gets to know her. If the relationship goes south, which could happen, he wouldn't want her to expose what he's doing.
 

Hell'nBack

Well-Known Member
#25
bjo32 said:
Why would you copy my post with your response? I didn't start the topic, I was just giving accurate answers to ted money's question. I saw that he was getting incorrect replies from several posters, and wanted to set the record straight. For the record, there is no problem dating a dealer if she wants to go out with you. This has nothing to do with being an AP. It comes down to does she want to go out with you.

Btw, there is more important things in life than trying to make money counting cards. Who knows ted money might have found his life long soul mate dealing cards. I was trying to give him the green light to go for it!

Well, someone had to be the fall guy.
 

Sonny

Well-Known Member
#27


FACT: The casino does not need a reason to fire a dealer. They do it all the time, often with no reason or an illegitimate one.

FACT: In many casinos the dealers are hired on a short-term basis and must re-audition for their job every year or so. They are not considered long-term employees.

FACT: If the casino finds out that a dealer is associated with a known AP, that dealer will be fired. It doesn't matter if you have ever played together or even been in the same casino at the same time. It doesn't matter if you are dating, friends, sat at the same table in the coffee shop one time, or have never met but are wrongly associated in a database.
 

Dummy

Well-Known Member
#28
bjo32 said:
What??? This post makes no sense. How can they PROVE collusion if it didn't happen? To PROVE something it had to happen.

"To go to jail or face other serious repercussions" someone has to cheat or commit fraud. Dating someone does not qualify as either one of these.
Lots of innocent people are proven guilty. Have you never been to court. The truth doesn't matter. What matters is what can be proven. Often the two are not the same. Once the relationship becomes known things that would be seen as innocent coincidence, because they are, will be evidence of collusion. Enough evidence mounts up and collusion is proven in the eyes of the casino and the eyes of the law. It doesn't matter that there was no collusion. The consequences will be the same.
 

JJP

Well-Known Member
#29
One thing we notice when we first start playing is there's no shortage of attractive female dealers. Clearly one of the many real life distractions one doesn't deal with (no pun intended) when learning to count cards on the computer. No doubt the casinos want it that way.

But where there's attractive women and tips involved, of course they are going to turn on the charm. But if somebody is thinking of dating one, I can't help but think their concentration is compromised. In an era of Tinder, Match, EHarmony, why bother trying to date someone who is likely turning on the artificial charm to many, many guys all day long?
 

bjo32

Well-Known Member
#30
Sonny said:


FACT: The casino does not need a reason to fire a dealer. They do it all the time, often with no reason or an illegitimate one.

FACT: In many casinos the dealers are hired on a short-term basis and must re-audition for their job every year or so. They are not considered long-term employees.

FACT: If the casino finds out that a dealer is associated with a known AP, that dealer will be fired. It doesn't matter if you have ever played together or even been in the same casino at the same time. It doesn't matter if you are dating, friends, sat at the same table in the coffee shop one time, or have never met but are wrongly associated in a database.
Fact: We have federal laws that protect employees from illegal firing practices. Casinos, like all businessses, must abide by these laws. The EEOC enforces these laws. If the casino fires a full time employee for "no reason or an illegimate one", then that employee should contact the EEOC and file a compliant or hire a lawyer and sue the casino. This employee could win a big settlement from the casino who fired her without cause, just like some AP's have won settlements from casinos for being illegally detained.

I reiterate, a casino cannot control a person's private life. We have laws in America that protects our freedoms.

This does not change the fact that an AP should try to NOT expose they're an AP. Part of being an AP is getting away with it. Again, this has nothing to do with an AP dating a dealer.

Nathaniel Tilton dated a Vegas pit boss for an extended period of time and she never found out he was an AP. He could have just as easily dated a dealer since the casino never knew what he did for a living. The pit boss never got in trouble and a dealer wouldn't have got in trouble or lost their job because the casino didn't know Nate was an AP. Btw, the pit boss gave Nate her number. Maybe ted money will get lucky and the dealer will slip her number to him.
 

bjo32

Well-Known Member
#31
JJP said:
One thing we notice when we first start playing is there's no shortage of attractive female dealers. Clearly one of the many real life distractions one doesn't deal with (no pun intended) when learning to count cards on the computer. No doubt the casinos want it that way.

But where there's attractive women and tips involved, of course they are going to turn on the charm. But if somebody is thinking of dating one, I can't help but think their concentration is compromised. In an era of Tinder, Match, EHarmony, why bother trying to date someone who is likely turning on the artificial charm to many, many guys all day long?
For the most part, I agree with your comments. I don't think casinos are the place to look for dates. I was just answering ted money's question. He felt a connection with a dealer and wanted to know if it was alright to ask her out on a date. The answer is yes.

In several GWAE podcasts APs have mentioned flirting with dealers, pit bosses and hosts...and sometimes going out with them. This is actually a great cover play since it's not something an AP usually does.

Part of being an AP is "getting away with it." This could be another cover play AP should add to their arsenal for longevity.
 

JJP

Well-Known Member
#32
Unless of course, the dealer signs a Code of Ethics which states they can't date a player. Once they sign, they are aware.

But if that isn't a part of any HR agreement, the casino has other ways to show its displeasure, like by cutting the dealer's hours or giving her bad shifts.

You have brought up decent points but the fact still remains, it's not a good idea to pursue.
 
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LV Bear

Administrator
#33
bjo32 said:
Fact: We have federal laws that protect employees from illegal firing practices. Casinos, like all businessses, must abide by these laws. The EEOC enforces these laws. If the casino fires a full time employee for "no reason or an illegimate one", then that employee should contact the EEOC and file a compliant or hire a lawyer and sue the casino. This employee could win a big settlement from the casino who fired her without cause, just like some AP's have won settlements from casinos for being illegally detained.

I reiterate, a casino cannot control a person's private life. We have laws in America that protects our freedoms.

This does not change the fact that an AP should try to NOT expose they're an AP. Part of being an AP is getting away with it. Again, this has nothing to do with an AP dating a dealer.

Nathaniel Tilton dated a Vegas pit boss for an extended period of time and she never found out he was an AP. He could have just as easily dated a dealer since the casino never knew what he did for a living. The pit boss never got in trouble and a dealer wouldn't have got in trouble or lost their job because the casino didn't know Nate was an AP. Btw, the pit boss gave Nate her number. Maybe ted money will get lucky and the dealer will slip her number to him.
Casinos do not operate in the way that normal businesses operate. In almost all jurisdictions, their oversight is by a casino-friendly agency whose main purpose is to protect the casinos, not patrons or employees. Other agencies routinely defer to the gaming agency, even in matters where the other agency should take action (police refusing to arrest casino guards who commit violent crimes against patrons, for a common example). Most casino management has an attitude of "the law doesn't apply to us." But suing a casino is a specialized, drawn-out process, not for the faint of heart.

Why attempt to start a relationship that will be marred by lying and deception in trying to conceal material things? Why subject this dealer to the possible risk of bad behavior by the employing casino? jjp wrote: why bother trying to date someone who is likely turning on the artificial charm to many, many guys all day long? I think that sums it up.

Casinos are a cesspool; it is all an AP can reasonably do to keep their slime off while extracting money from the cesspool. Compromising the AP's integrity by fraternizing with employees is likely to be a mistake. Re-read Sonny's post with the picture of the angry-looking young man, then run, run away from the tempting dealer.
 

Dummy

Well-Known Member
#34
bjo32 said:
Fact: We have federal laws that protect employees from illegal firing practices. Casinos, like all businessses, must abide by these laws. The EEOC enforces these laws. If the casino fires a full time employee for "no reason or an illegimate one", then that employee should contact the EEOC and file a compliant or hire a lawyer and sue the casino. This employee could win a big settlement from the casino who fired her without cause, just like some AP's have won settlements from casinos for being illegally detained.
Man you are naive. All you need to do is watch one shift and most dealers would do something that could be used as a legitimate reason to fire them. They don't even need a reason to fire anyone. If you can prove you got fired for race or sexual orientation you might have a case but I guarantee any employer could find a legitimate reason for firing anyone if they had to. The concept of policing someones thoughts sounds good but only they know what they are thinking. Deciding what a person is thinking and prosecuting based on that is a slippery slope that should not be tread upon.
 

Midwest Player

Well-Known Member
#35
Sonny said:
FACT: If the casino finds out that a dealer is associated with a known AP, that dealer will be fired. It doesn't matter if you have ever played together or even been in the same casino at the same time. It doesn't matter if you are dating, friends, sat at the same table in the coffee shop one time, or have never met but are wrongly associated in a database.
This isn't always the case. I know of a dealer who met his wife when she was playing at his table. I've had dealers buy me drinks after their shift, and I have bought them drinks. It is common practice in one casino for dealers to go have a drink after they are done dealing and they mix in with the customers.
 

bjo32

Well-Known Member
#37
Midwest Player said:
This isn't always the case. I know of a dealer who met his wife when she was playing at his table. I've had dealers buy me drinks after their shift, and I have bought them drinks. It is common practice in one casino for dealers to go have a drink after they are done dealing and they mix in with the customers.
Thanks for coming to my rescue Midwest Player. The point I've been trying to make is there are too many variables to just say point blank don't date a dealer. I've also known some APs that have dated dealers and it's gone well. Tilton dated a pit boss, several APs on GWAE talk about dating, flirting and hooking up with casino employees. I've never heard where this went bad for the AP or the casino employee. I wouldn't advocate trying to find your wife in a topless club, but I know someone that did this and it's working out. I guess I try not to judge people. I don't think we should type-cast all people that work in casinos. They are just like people in every walk of life, there are some good ones and bad ones...and in between ones.

I think it also depends on the area of country you live in. In the south, the casinos are pretty relaxed about casino employees going out with customers. The dealers will sometimes have drinks with customers after they get off work as described by Midwest Player. And the pit bosses don't care.

My reply was mainly in response to ted money's question. He said he felt a connection with a certain dealer. I don't know how long he knew her or what this connection amounted too. But my theory is life is too short to not at least explore what might happen. Yes, there are many places to meet girls, but who knows this one could be the "one". It can't hurt to try. If it doesn't work out, move on. There is no harm in trying. It's really not that big of a deal. I'm surprised so many people on this forum see this as of major no no for an AP...almost like it's one of the 10 AP commandments: Thou shalt not date a dealer.

Anyway, it was good to see at least one AP that didn't think it was a cardinal sin to date and/or fraternize with a dealer.
 

KewlJ

Well-Known Member
#38
About 10 years ago, maybe 2011, I had an experience that I wrote about on this forum I believe (pre-reincarnation of the forum). I call the story/experience "the perfect shoe". It has to do with the single best shoe and session I have ever had, still to date. I won 20 grand on that single shoe, which is a lot of money for a mid-level player. By the end of the shoe, naturally, I had drawn mega attention. I remember literally running for the door. I just wanted out of that place. I made it out with no problems and cashed in chips over time at later times with no issues. But there is a second part to the story, that I might have mentioned once, but didn't share too much.

So two or three nights later, I was chillin at a local bar, about 2 miles off the strip (where the perfect shoe occurred), when I noticed the pit guy from that very day down the bar. He made his way to me, bought me a drink and sat down next to me. Apparently he had seen me before at the bar (yes it was a gay bar) on prior occasions. I didn't recall seeing him. But I did know that I had played his shift before. So after introducing himself, he told me that he couldn't allow me to play on his shift any longer. He advised me not to play that casino at all, but the stipulation was only that he would not allow me to play his shift. So it was a backoff/baring several days later, several miles from the casino. o_O We chatted for a few minutes, he bought me another beer and left.

The next time I saw him, was several weeks later. I returned the favor and bought him a beer and we talked some more. Over time, he became a fairly close friend. Just a friend but a close friend. I have had him to my home for parties and get togethers and although I no longer visit bars all that often, I occasionally will meet up to have a beer with him. He is a good guy, has his own interest in card counting and advantage play, and I have picked his brain about different issues over the years. He even once shared info from a database. (I didn't ask for that).

And to this day, he remains a friend and I have never played on his shift again. That casino is actually no longer even in my rotation.

If you live in Vegas, more than other locations, it isn't unusual to see people from the "other" side out and about in public, anywhere from a bar to the grocery store. So it wouldn't surprise me if friendships and relationships aren't that unusual. Dealers and pit people ARE people! :rolleyes: (although some don't act like it).
 
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