Card Counting Technique

#21
Counting_Is_Fun said:
Uggg please read every reply to you so far on the forum, before you post anymore.
Along with reading other threads, I always read every reply to my post. I’m not sure what your point is. I just started learning last month and this site seemed like a good place to learn and ask questions, even if they seem basic or elementary, but I apologize if I’m offending anyone.
 

MrFatCat

Well-Known Member
#22
LuckyStars said:
I agree with you completely. The point to my statement was to say Im proba not getting any attention with my small bet spread.
As far as my $5 bet, I just started learning to count last month and I’m currently saving a bankrole. I just wanted to start spending a few hours a week in casinos to start testing the things I’m learning. For example, after playing a bit last night and then some this morning, Ive seen the dif of try to play when I’m tired and rested. Anyway, thanks for the feedback.
It doesn't matter whether you're getting any attention spreading $5-25 -- you're almost certainly losing, even if you were keeping perfect track of the count. I don't own CV to test, but unless you're basically never playing negative counts, $5-25 is not winning against any shoe conditions I know.
 
#23
MrFatCat said:
It doesn't matter whether you're getting any attention spreading $5-25 -- you're almost certainly losing, even if you were keeping perfect track of the count. I don't own CV to test, but unless you're basically never playing negative counts, $5-25 is not winning against any shoe conditions I know.
I understand. My main goal was to find some casinos that I can play at and get some real casino experience while building my BR.
 

MrFatCat

Well-Known Member
#24
LuckyStars said:
I understand. My main goal was to find some casinos that I can play at and get some real casino experience while building my BR.
Just as long as the "while" here means in a broader life sense, not in the sense that you're trying to win money at the casino. But it's probably not worth the price you're paying to practice, just continue drilling at home until you have enough bankroll to take a real shot.
 
#25
LuckyStars said:
I understand. My main goal was to find some casinos that I can play at and get some real casino experience while building my BR.
Besides practicing in a real casino (which is great and necessary), also get "Blackjack Verite Games" app, pay the $35 or whatever, start with a $5,000 fake bank roll, and practice playing that as well. Use a decent bet spread. Maybe a 1-10 spread. (This game is great in that it will "buzz" and tell you every time you make a wrong play)

https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=com.nsbasic.gcbj&hl=en_US (android)

Also, yeah, keep doing drills. Get 3"x5" index cards....write down each of the "best strategies" plays that you have the hardest time remembering.

Also, write down all the illustrious 18 plays on separate index cards.

Constantly flip through those index cards...keep them in the room you spend the most time in...bedroom or tv room.
 
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#26
MrFatCat said:
unless you're basically never playing negative counts, $5-25 is not winning against any shoe conditions
LuckyStars said:
My main goal was to find some casinos that I can play at and get some real casino experience while building my BR.
There's something illogical here, how can you build your bankroll if you are not playing a winning game?
 

KewlJ

Well-Known Member
#27
xengrifter said:
There's something illogical here, how can you build your bankroll if you are not playing a winning game?
What if he is adding to his BR from an outside source like a job periodically? Then he would be getting some experience at a break even-ish game while building his BR.
 
#28
KewlJ said:
What if he is adding to his BR from an outside source like a job periodically? Then he would be getting some experience at a break even-ish game while building his BR.
Thank you, and you’re exactly correct. I‘m putting money back weekly and the short visits I’ve started now is solely for the practice, but I do put the money I’ve won into my BR. After using my first month to start saving, learning basic strategy, and counting, I’ve started spending 1-2 hours a session a couple times a week. I take plenty of bathroom breaks, then quit when I get up a bit. After that I’ll leave or stand behind full tables and count their cards. For me this is a marathon rather then a sprint and my goal is to get some practice and protect my funds until I get an adequate BR. I probably shouldn’t post without giving my full circumstances, but I do enjoy the conversation and advice.
 
#29
KewlJ said:
What if he is adding to his BR from an outside source like a job periodically? Then he would be getting some experience at a break even-ish game while building his BR.
LuckyStars said:
Thank you, and you’re exactly correct. I‘m putting money back weekly and the short visits I’ve started now is solely for the practice, but I do put the money I’ve won into my BR
A 1 to 5 spread play all on 6 deck standard rules ....
.... Is that even a break-even proposition?
 
#30
So far it has been, but this was my first week to play. As previously stated, my intent was to practice, so my expectation was to be up or down $25 after a session of play. Between the play and watching other tables I thought it would be worth that for the practice. Looking back I guess I went a little above the spread I stated because I did play two hands a few times.
 
#31
LuckyStars said:
So far it has been, but this was my first week to play. As previously stated, my intent was to practice, so my expectation was to be up or down $25 after a session of play. Between the play and watching other tables I thought it would be worth that for the practice. Looking back I guess I went a little above the spread I stated because I did play two hands a few times.
To let others give me advice, I’ll give a better a post to better explain my circumstances.
From where I live, I’m 5 hours from a casino, so it will be six months or more before I can financially justify traveling to play.
Because I travel for work, I can stop by a select couple of casinos 1-2 times a week and I thought it was worth playing for the practice. With a $5 bet and small spread, I was attempting to get practice without putting my building BR with much risk of ruin. My other option is to not play at all until I get an adequate BR.
As others have recommended, I’m downloading an app to practice and I ordered Don’s book yesterday.
 

KewlJ

Well-Known Member
#32
xengrifter said:
A 1 to 5 spread play all on 6 deck standard rules ....
.... Is that even a break-even proposition?
Yes, IF you are escaping at least some of the negative counts....That is the key. It really doesn't take that much to flip a standard half percent negative game, to positive, if you get out of the worst of the negative counts.

I started in Atlantic City, with a $5-$30 spread. That is 1-6 but the games were 8 deck, which means even fewer plus and max bet frequencies and, I was able to flip the game to a winning game and slowly build my bankroll. I mean, it took a hell of a long time as my EV was less than minimum wage which was $5 back then. But it was positive EV.

I'll repeat another example that I have told before. A few years later, after I had finally moved up in stakes, Borgata was the top game in my Atlantic City rotation, because it was 6 decks. I played there alot (too much, which is why I lost Atlantic City), and I would see some of the same players alot. One was an older gentleman, I am going to say 70ish (no offense to anyone in that age range....just a description). He was spreading $25 -$75 and he was max betting his $75 even kind of late, like tc +4 / +5 range.

So I saw the gent frequently on the train to Philly which was my regular mode of transportation. He got off at the Egg harbor stop which was about 1/2 from AC, where as I went on to Philly. So one day, I was sitting across the aisle and moved over and sat next to him, introduced myself and struck up a conversation about our blackjack play. He told me that he used to spread 1-5 red chip but that spreading 1-3 green earned him much more comps, with out much change in risk. That's what he was really after, the comps as he ate lunch for free every day. He was a widower got out and got a free lunch and made a few bucks.

I agreed the comps were probably better playing green than red, but argued that at a 1-3 spread he was playing a losing game, which would basically mean he was paying for those comped meals. He assured me I was wrong and that with frequent bathroom breaks on some of the negative counts, he was earning $6-7 an hour, while getting the much better comps. I was sure he was wrong and politely argued as much.

When I got home, I broke out Normy software and played around a bit, setting different exit points on negative counts and to my surprise, I think I was able to get the win rate up just shy of $6, just below what he assured me. Close enough that I will declare he was right and I was wrong.

Moral of the story is what I started off with. It just doesn't take all that much to flip a half percent negative game (standard rules) to a slightly positive game, IF you are escaping at least some of the negative counts...the worst of the negative counts. Now of course a positive EV game and a game worthwhile are 2 different things entirely. There aren't going to be many players willing to spread green and the variance that goes with that for $5-$6 an hour in EV. And there aren't many players that are going to be willing to grind a small spread playing red, as Lucky Stars is talking about and I did early in my career for just a few bucks EV. That is the ultimate in grinding!
 

beating vegas

Well-Known Member
#36
LuckyStars said:
While I’m getting more proficient, I know I’m not ready for a casino. I feel like I’m moving my lips when I count and worried that would be a clear give away, so I started using words or syllables to symbolize a plus, even, or negative count. For example, I use “E” for even and “R” for Red to signal a negative count during my count. Is this a real concern or am I overthinking it?
I don’t work for Norm over at QFIT. But Casino Vertie would help you.
Just don’t move your lips.
 
#37
Mouthing the count isn't something I've struggled with but there is an exercise I do that would likely help with that as well, if you want try it.

While running your counting drills, turn on music that you know the lyrics to and sing along; that'll keep your lips doing something other than mouthing the count, and also will give you practice doing something with your mouth and voice other than counting in general. I originally started doing it to help practice for carrying on a conversation with the dealer, pitboss, or other players while keeping the count, but I imagine it should help prevent accidentally mouthing the count as well by un-training your muscle memory, to separate your lips from the count.
 

beating vegas

Well-Known Member
#38
JamesonDetroit said:
Mouthing the count isn't something I've struggled with but there is an exercise I do that would likely help with that as well, if you want try it.

While running your counting drills, turn on music that you know the lyrics to and sing along; that'll keep your lips doing something other than mouthing the count, and also will give you practice doing something with your mouth and voice other than counting in general. I originally started doing it to help practice for carrying on a conversation with the dealer, pitboss, or other players while keeping the count, but I imagine it should help prevent accidentally mouthing the count as well by un-training your muscle memory, to separate your lips from the count.
This is great advice. It will help you if your moving your lips.

Try talking on your phone while you practice.
Because when you start putting up big spreads the pit boss will come by the table and if you can have a conversation with him it will lower the odds of him making the call.

If you can get along with the pit boss it can keep you playing.
 
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