Card counting vs. drug dealing?

aslan

aslan

Well-Known Member
Automatic Monkey said:
Theoretically the stock market provides capital for companies and allows them to produce useful goods and services. AP's remove capital from companies that provide a dubious service.

As far as being philanthropic, I can't prove that casino executives are less so than AP's. So can't say that what we do is for the good. But it certainly isn't bad. Yes a lot of the money we win was lost by compulsive gamblers, but what can we do, give our money away to compulsive gamblers so they can do it again? Our actions are neutral relative to the fate of compulsive gamblers as we can not prevent or help them.

And on that note, CG's probably play lottery more than anything else so if anyone lives in a state with a lottery and drives on the roads, they are also receiving benefit from the losses of compulsive gamblers.
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Not only that, there are some companies other than casinos, such as, tobacco companies, that provide harmful products. I would rather profess the occupation of card counter than accountant, or president, or agricultural expert working for a tobacco company, even though these occupations are generally considered an honored part of society, while card counting is not. The real service that a card counter provides is directly to himself, to his family, and to his chosen beneficiaries, and he does no harm to others, other than minor harm to the casinos, institutions that arguably themselves provide more harm than good.
 
B

bondon

Member
Simply amazing!

I'm very impressed with the responses (but not surprised :)).

Funding post-secondary studies, contributing back to society with the gains and setting aside money for beneficiaries makes going to the 'store' worthwhile it for me.

After staying out of the casinos for extended periods of time, I would still feel a strong urge to study and thrive at the 'store.' This is part of who I am :eek:

Instead of trying to prove my point through education, I will prove it through action (my girl is going to Brazil to compete this summer and a trip funded by the store might put her in the right frame of mind!).
 
mathman

mathman

Well-Known Member
you might as well face it, you're going back...

Bondon you might as well face it, by posting this it means you've already made your mind up you're going back. lol It's truthfully amazing to me the response I get from the people around me about what I do. I learned to be honest as I don't view what I do as gambling therefore I have nothing to be ashamed of. That's part of the negative view that people have about playing blackjack, most think it's gambling and to 99% of the players it is. To a chosen view or as CP said it 50 or 60 people here it's an income, a steady flow of money. Money to be a good American and do more than our part to support the economy. Many of us are Robin Hoods of sorts, taking from the rich casino to provide something for someone who may not be able to afford it. That someone may be ourselves, our spouse, our friend or our neighbor and so on.
Gamblers are losers and therefore selfish. They lie, cheat and hoard every dollar they get to be able to continue to gamble. That gives all of us a "bad name" so to speak. It's easy to believe what we do is bad as so many "gamblers" before us have done damage to society around them. The big bad Casino likes to perpetuate this view and make us out to be cheaters. They don't want to face us they just want the mindless ploppies coming in dumping their wallets on the table. I've played the stock market and if you ask me being an AP is more moral than the modern stock market world. Anyone who has had allot of money on a stock that got shorted knows what I mean. Shorting a stock should be considered immoral (and illegal), not card counting. There are so many other modern occupations that don't really contribute anything to society yet those are acceptable ways to make a living. AP is not a crime, it's a skill and something we all should be proud of. You are using your god given intelligence to learn a set of skills and using them to help yourself and others around you. There is nothing immoral about it unless you lose discipline and become a gambler....MM:cool:
 
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Jack_Black

Jack_Black

Well-Known Member
MeWin$ said:
my buddy had a girlfriend who made up all kind of BS to not do what she didnt want to do, including no doggystyle sex because "it hurt her back"
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:laugh::laugh::cry::cry:

That made me laugh out loud!!
 
Jack_Black

Jack_Black

Well-Known Member
I've noticed that many females give this type of response when I tell them what I do as a hobby, to hopefully turn into full time gig. They always whine and pout and tell me you can't win at gambling. Then I flash them the cash, and that always seems to shut their traps. It also seems to make me more attractive to them suddenly.:p Pfffft, Women.

It's just the myths and misunderstandings that come along with any unknown venture or hobby. "You do rock climbing? Oooooh, I heard that's dangerous!" Females are into safety, security, the proven, and the norm. They wanna marry doctors and lawyers. They make great conservative investors and advisors, Re: Suze Orman. I remember when I used to work in restaurants, and that it always the female parties that were the hagglers. My first lesson my boss gave me was: if you have a table full of women, prepare to make separate checks before hand, you know they're gonna ask for it, might as well be prepared. Not to mention all the chicks that have come in with coupons, or the chick parties that opted to not get separate checks and are now haggling each other over who owes what on the bill, including tax and tip!!
 
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B

bigplayer

Well-Known Member
tensplitter said:
The morally wrong aspect may be because the money you win is money that is lost by people with gambling addictions. I see too many degenerate gamblers at the tables I play at when I play overnight. I see some of the same people playing till they lose, using a progression, flat betting, or (my favorite) varying their bets randomly not based on the count, and buying in for more after losing. They also make stupid plays like doubling down hard 13 or a pair of aces, splitting tens when the count is low, standing on a soft 16 (it's a SIX!!!), even hitting a hard 17. But then again I act like a degenerate gambler to blend in, looking like I'm losing most of my sessions by ratholing and playing till I "lose" if I win my big bets.
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I hear what you are saying, I disagree in this respect that money won by counters is won from the casino, not the other players. If counters stopped playing tomorrow the losers would still lose...it's not zero sum like live poker in that regard. That is sort of the same logic as "playing on houses money". Once the casino wins from the squares it's the casinos money, once you win it from the casino it's your money. Your ability to win money from the casino in the short run is not dependent on square players losing...in fact they might have had a very lucky day and you can still win money and cash your chips. This opposed to a game like Hold-Em where winners are 100% dependent on someone else losing.
 
R

Renzey

Well-Known Member
tensplitter said:
The morally wrong aspect may be because the money you win is money that is lost by people with gambling addictions. They make stupid plays like..................
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This kind of quote always brings me back to feeling a bit guilty about pawning off a bad split to the player next to me. I'll have maybe, 7/7 vs. 2 and say disgustedly, "Aw, I guess you're supposed to split these, right?" The answer almost always comes back something like, "Absolutely!, or, "That's a great split!". Trying to appease my conscience for what I may be about to do, I'll then say, "Well I don't like it. I seem to lose a lot more times than I win with these, but if you like the hand, you're welcome to half". They often take it, probably believing they're taking advantage of me rather than the other way around. I still don't feel totally warm and fuzzy about this play, but after serving a truthful warning, I still find myself doing it here and there.
 
sagefr0g

sagefr0g

Well-Known Member
always gotta be a bad guy, hmmm, cast the first stone

first off, just me maybe but i'd have to say that yes goodness and genuine value does exist. evil? well, i dunno, maybe, but certainly there has been, is and will be plenty of stuff that happens that just about anyone would say "man, that's evil."
how about an automobile accident? are cars and highways evil? well, i don't even want to get into it. lol.
how about in the wild kingdom? anything evil there? a tiger maybe or how about some germ or virus?:rolleyes:
do tigers think they have a place in the world?
is just maybe all this stuff a part of life, each thing maybe has it's own part to play in the drama of life, maybe each element some sort of measuring stick against another?:confused:
whatever, people like to tinker around with stuff, don't they.
what, you have your environmentalist arguing about global warming, economist about the economy, politicians about everything under the sun, lol.
what's those icon's they have in movie theaters, comedy:laugh: and tragedy:cry: sorta thing? geesh, i dunno.
anyway, are casinos really so bad?
something to think about, no?
what is the old saw? 'takes all kinds to make the world go around', sorta thing. ohh and another one, 'life is what you make it'.
so many things, so many things........
 
flyingwind

flyingwind

Well-Known Member
bondon said:
She later went on to compare CC to dealing drugs saying how it was morally wrong and how it wasn't contributing to society. Since then, I've tried to invest the so called 'legitimate' way (stock market, savings, RRSP) but I'm getting frustrated at the lack of control I have over the rate of return of these investments.
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I think it's very hard to convince some people of the value of CC. I don't think I will ever convince my family that CC is a good activity. Society has certain views and opinions attached to people who go to the casinos. Whether you're a gambler or AP, on the surface, many will simply assume you're a gambler.

On the other hand, CC is not anywhere close to the level of dealing drugs.
 
B

bondon

Member
flyingwind said:
I think it's very hard to convince some people of the value of CC. I don't think I will ever convince my family that CC is a good activity. Society has certain views and opinions attached to people who go to the casinos. Whether you're a gambler or AP, on the surface, many will simply assume you're a gambler.

On the other hand, CC is not anywhere close to the level of dealing drugs.
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You're absolutely right about the average people assuming that you're a gambler even after being given a definition of an AP and what he/she does to make capital in the long run.

At the end of the last school year, the Catholic school system (in Alberta, Canada) decided to stop using Casino nights as fundraisers and the people making that decision blatantly told the schools that they had no intention of finding other ways of funding. Administrative teams are essentially cutting themselves out of millions for activities that involve school aged children!
 
aslan

aslan

Well-Known Member
bondon said:
You're absolutely right about the average people assuming that you're a gambler even after being given a definition of an AP and what he/she does to make capital in the long run.

At the end of the last school year, the Catholic school system (in Alberta, Canada) decided to stop using Casino nights as fundraisers and the people making that decision blatantly told the schools that they had no intention of finding other ways of funding. Administrative teams are essentially cutting themselves out of millions for activities that involve school aged children!
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It might be worth noting that the Vatican has no ban on gambling. An individual diocese may think casino nights promote unhealthy gambling tendencies, or in certain cultural settings may believe it is objectively immoral, but they are acting on their own and do not represent the teaching of the Catholic Church. A man has the right to do whatever he wants with his money, provided he does not shirk his fiscal responsibilities in doing so.
 
flyingwind

flyingwind

Well-Known Member
bondon said:
Instead of trying to prove my point through education, I will prove it through action (my girl is going to Brazil to compete this summer and a trip funded by the store might put her in the right frame of mind!).
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Well, I offer my sincerest hope that your plan does not backfire.

If she appreciates it, and truly turns around and sees your point of view, great.

What if the opposite happens?

Going back to the example with family, would my family accept the knowledge that the food I've put on the table was paid for with CC? For the time being, I don't want to find out.
 
W

White Guy

Well-Known Member
People really have way too much time on their hands to make up BS like this.

It amazes me.. Why in the hell do you make stuff up to type to people you will never see and don't know?

I really would like to see a study on this.
 
aslan

aslan

Well-Known Member
zengrifter said:
<b>
Card counting vs. drug dealing?​
</b>How about card-eating vs. drug taking? zg
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Or eating drug-laced cards? Does LSD come to mind?

Z:devil:G :whip::whip::whip:
 
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