Casino employee pay scale
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I should just give up. But I am giving it one more try. THEY ALL MAKE THE SAME BASE PAY OF 4.25, EVERY DEALER, EVERY SHIFT. THIS IS ONLY ONE PART OF THEIR TOTAL PAY.
So a prime shift will get 25.75hr in tips. If we knew what a less desirable shift got in tips, then we could tell you what their total pay is. But right now we can't. The only thing I can tell you for sure that as long as there are any tips, it WILL be more than 4.25 total pay.
So a prime shift will get 25.75hr in tips. If we knew what a less desirable shift got in tips, then we could tell you what their total pay is. But right now we can't. The only thing I can tell you for sure that as long as there are any tips, it WILL be more than 4.25 total pay.
Dealers are overpaid -- no tipping
It is only the top-end dealers who make more per hour than the bottom-end counters.
Dealers are overpaid. At minimum wage, adding the excessive tipping most ploppies engage in, their actual wage is around $12 per hour at the worst dumps (about $25,000 per year), and around $35 to $40 per hour at the carpet joints (about $75,000 to $85,000 per year).
The high-end dealers make more than most police officers, nurses, or teachers make. Yet the dealer has a job that requires no formal education, no real skills, and only a few weeks of training. Many dealers don't even bother to learn to speak English, and many have minimal or NO "people skills."
Yet people line up to take dealer jobs. Why? Because dealing is a better job than they are able to find elsewhere. There are a few exceptions, particularly bright young people who may be dealers for a short time while going to school or getting ready to embark on other careers, but need immediate employment.
Granted, it's an unpleasant environment and lousy work, frequently dealing with disrespectful, hostile, and often drunken members of the public. I doubt if I, personally, would last a single day as a dealer. But that doesn't take away the fact that there is no dealer shortage anywhere that I'm aware of. So the job must not be that bad for those willing to do it.
I tip generously those who provide a service to me, in positions where tipping is normal and customary, such as wait staff in restaurants, and cocktail waitresses in casinos. But I don't tip a plumber, electrician, or auto mechanic. They certainly provide a service -- why don't they deserve tips, but a dealer does?
In thousands of hours in casinos, I can think of only a handful of times when dealers went out of their way to provide me with any quantifiable service that should earn them tips -- better pen, not loudly shouting "checks play," dealing as quickly as they were able, etc. Most dealers are on auto-pilot; normal working people trying to get through their routine workday. Few know anything about advantage play, and fewer still would recognize the offering of a tip as a subtle request for the better playing conditions that are within their power to dispense.
For the ploppy, who is in the casino to be "entertained," and is willing to lose his or her money for the dubious "entertainment value" they receive, the people skills of the dealer may add value to their entertainment experience. Such a person should, and almost always does, tip the dealer. They are receiving a service from the dealer, in that their time at the table is more pleasant. The ploppy has negative EV, and is eventually going to lose all his or her money. I'd rather the dealer gets some of that money than the casino owner.
For an advantage player who is in a casino simply to make money, tipping is a waste, except for the instances that it provides cover and/or longevity. I don't care if the dealer is pleasant or not. In fact, my favorite type of dealer is one who deals quickly, and never says a word -- a deaf mute would be the perfect dealer. No useless, idle chitchat, no nosy questions. Just the cards flying as fast as possible, to maximize my hands-per-hour.
Other than at the times when tipping buys cover and/or longevity, it's just another business expense that can usually be cut out. Would you pay a higher price for gasoline, because the gas station cashier is pleasant? Would you pay a higher price than you have to for any commodity product? Needlessly giving away a portion of your profit is the same thing. It directly affects your bottom line. I don't see the point in deliberately lowering profit for no good reason.
It is only the top-end dealers who make more per hour than the bottom-end counters.
Dealers are overpaid. At minimum wage, adding the excessive tipping most ploppies engage in, their actual wage is around $12 per hour at the worst dumps (about $25,000 per year), and around $35 to $40 per hour at the carpet joints (about $75,000 to $85,000 per year).
The high-end dealers make more than most police officers, nurses, or teachers make. Yet the dealer has a job that requires no formal education, no real skills, and only a few weeks of training. Many dealers don't even bother to learn to speak English, and many have minimal or NO "people skills."
Yet people line up to take dealer jobs. Why? Because dealing is a better job than they are able to find elsewhere. There are a few exceptions, particularly bright young people who may be dealers for a short time while going to school or getting ready to embark on other careers, but need immediate employment.
Granted, it's an unpleasant environment and lousy work, frequently dealing with disrespectful, hostile, and often drunken members of the public. I doubt if I, personally, would last a single day as a dealer. But that doesn't take away the fact that there is no dealer shortage anywhere that I'm aware of. So the job must not be that bad for those willing to do it.
I tip generously those who provide a service to me, in positions where tipping is normal and customary, such as wait staff in restaurants, and cocktail waitresses in casinos. But I don't tip a plumber, electrician, or auto mechanic. They certainly provide a service -- why don't they deserve tips, but a dealer does?
In thousands of hours in casinos, I can think of only a handful of times when dealers went out of their way to provide me with any quantifiable service that should earn them tips -- better pen, not loudly shouting "checks play," dealing as quickly as they were able, etc. Most dealers are on auto-pilot; normal working people trying to get through their routine workday. Few know anything about advantage play, and fewer still would recognize the offering of a tip as a subtle request for the better playing conditions that are within their power to dispense.
For the ploppy, who is in the casino to be "entertained," and is willing to lose his or her money for the dubious "entertainment value" they receive, the people skills of the dealer may add value to their entertainment experience. Such a person should, and almost always does, tip the dealer. They are receiving a service from the dealer, in that their time at the table is more pleasant. The ploppy has negative EV, and is eventually going to lose all his or her money. I'd rather the dealer gets some of that money than the casino owner.
For an advantage player who is in a casino simply to make money, tipping is a waste, except for the instances that it provides cover and/or longevity. I don't care if the dealer is pleasant or not. In fact, my favorite type of dealer is one who deals quickly, and never says a word -- a deaf mute would be the perfect dealer. No useless, idle chitchat, no nosy questions. Just the cards flying as fast as possible, to maximize my hands-per-hour.
Other than at the times when tipping buys cover and/or longevity, it's just another business expense that can usually be cut out. Would you pay a higher price for gasoline, because the gas station cashier is pleasant? Would you pay a higher price than you have to for any commodity product? Needlessly giving away a portion of your profit is the same thing. It directly affects your bottom line. I don't see the point in deliberately lowering profit for no good reason.
I have had plenty of value from careful tipping.
"My" dealer would save my "preferred" seat for me, shoo away undesirables, keep the floor from bugging me, not gripe about my lack of a player's card, put up a no-mid-shoe-entry sign, and even tell me her shifts.
That all has real value I was happy to pay for. (Counting alone generally isn't profitable enough to justify that expense, however.)
"My" dealer would save my "preferred" seat for me, shoo away undesirables, keep the floor from bugging me, not gripe about my lack of a player's card, put up a no-mid-shoe-entry sign, and even tell me her shifts.
That all has real value I was happy to pay for. (Counting alone generally isn't profitable enough to justify that expense, however.)
This is exactly my own position. A dealer is just a low-level menial type job, but not particularly providing a service specific to me. They are just doing their job. It isn't about being cheap, because I am not cheap with those where it is customary to tip. I just don't believe dealers fall into that category.
Now yes, for some dealers, it is a low paying job and probably pretty difficult to make a living, support a family off of the pre-tip wage. I have even had some dealer tell me this directly (as they whore for tips). But guess what....that really isn't my fault or my responsibility. Am I supposed to tip and supplement every person stuck in a low end, low paying job?
Now some in the community talk about tipping as an advantage play. In other words getting something like better penetration in exchange for your tip. Well guess what? If the dealer is giving you something that he/she wouldn't otherwise give, maybe breaking house rules or procedures in exchange for your tip, even if unspoken....THAT is technically collusion. And while there is little chance of anything becoming of it, that is just not the way I want to win. I like to play and win fair and square, by the rules set by the casino.
Very interesting comments by johndoe though. Thoughts that I haven't heard before in the "tipping" discussions. If the dealer is doing something extra for you, like holding your seat, something that does not break the rules, but is just good customer service, I would definitely tip for that.
Now yes, for some dealers, it is a low paying job and probably pretty difficult to make a living, support a family off of the pre-tip wage. I have even had some dealer tell me this directly (as they whore for tips). But guess what....that really isn't my fault or my responsibility. Am I supposed to tip and supplement every person stuck in a low end, low paying job?
Now some in the community talk about tipping as an advantage play. In other words getting something like better penetration in exchange for your tip. Well guess what? If the dealer is giving you something that he/she wouldn't otherwise give, maybe breaking house rules or procedures in exchange for your tip, even if unspoken....THAT is technically collusion. And while there is little chance of anything becoming of it, that is just not the way I want to win. I like to play and win fair and square, by the rules set by the casino.
Very interesting comments by johndoe though. Thoughts that I haven't heard before in the "tipping" discussions. If the dealer is doing something extra for you, like holding your seat, something that does not break the rules, but is just good customer service, I would definitely tip for that.
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