Casino Surrender

[moo321]

In case you aren't familiar, casino surrender allows you to automatically win half your bet if you have a pat 20 after the dealer has checked for blackjack. Normally it has a pretty high edge of 5% or so. But would this ever become correct against a 10 upcard, because the count was so high that the likelihood of a push increased?

 

[la_dee_daa]

what now? is this some crazy new surrender rule that still lets you play your hand after you surrender or am i just clueless here.

moo!!!!!

:cow:

 

[la_dee_daa]

or are you saying the casino dealer surrenders their hand?? and you have the choice.. i guess i haven't seen this rule before and am confused of this

:cow:

 

[shadroch]

In a casino that offers dealer surrender,if you have 20 and the dealer is showing a ten,you can take half a win automaticaly.If you are betting $10,you win $5.
I think its a terrible option and can't see it being worth taking except in rare circumstances.

 

[moo321]

In a casino that offers dealer surrender,if you have 20 and the dealer is showing a ten,you can take half a win automaticaly.If you are betting $10,you win $5.
I think its a terrible option and can't see it being worth taking except in rare circumstances.

Well, I'm just wondering what those circumstances might be. Seems like it might be worth it at higher counts.

 

[Renzey]

Well, I'm just wondering what those circumstances might be. Seems like it might be worth it at higher counts.

Under normal conditions when you're dealt 20 against the dealer's 10 up, you have a +56% EV. If you take the automatic half bet winner, you earn 50%.

At a true count of +11 (Kiss RC of '42'), your EV drops to 50% due to the greatly increased chance of pushing. At anything over that, you're better off taking the Casino Surrender option.

 

[moo321]

Under normal conditions when you're dealt 20 against the dealer's 10 up, you have a +56% EV. If you take the automatic half bet winner, you earn 50%.

At a true count of +11 (Kiss RC of '42'), your EV drops to 50% due to the greatly increased chance of pushing. At anything over that, you're better off taking the Casino Surrender option.

Hmm... I guess it's something to keep in mind for double deck.

 

[shadroch]

The few casinos I've ever seen this offered in only had it on shoes.Last place I saw it was in The Sahara and it was a bad shoe game. Six decks,I think.

 

[k_c]

In case you aren't familiar, casino surrender allows you to automatically win half your bet if you have a pat 20 after the dealer has checked for blackjack. Normally it has a pretty high edge of 5% or so. But would this ever become correct against a 10 upcard, because the count was so high that the likelihood of a push increased?

This would be a valuable option if it was early surrender. i.e it would be correct to surrender and take a sure 50% before dealer checks for blackjack but not after.

k_c

 

[shadroch]

This would be a valuable option if it was early surrender. i.e it would be correct to surrender and take a sure 50% before dealer checks for blackjack but not after.

k_c

Dealer Surrender only comes in if the dealer has a ten showing,not an Ace. If he has a ten,its only 1/13 that he has an Ace.It's pretty much just a bet that he has a ten as a hole card,so its pays off 4 out of 13 times in the long run.

 

[k_c]

Dealer Surrender only comes in if the dealer has a ten showing,not an Ace. If he has a ten,its only 1/13 that he has an Ace.It's pretty much just a bet that he has a ten as a hole card,so its pays off 4 out of 13 times in the long run.

What I'm saying is :
once dealer has checked for blackjack and doesn't have it player's EV for 10-10 vs 10 = +55.91% (6 decks)
player's EV before dealer checks for blackjack for 10-10 vs 10 (counting dealer blackjack as a player loss) = +43.80% (6 decks)

If player can take a sure 50% before dealer checks for blackjack its right to do so but if he must wait until after dealer checks for blackjack it's better to decline the sure 50%. This is for a full shoe.

k_c

 

[SecurityRisk]

Some casinos call it "Automatic Payment" instead of "Casino Surrender." I read somewhere that if your using the hi-lo count system, it is a good idea to take the automatic payment when the true count is +4 or higher.

 

[flyingwind]

What I'm saying is :
once dealer has checked for blackjack and doesn't have it player's EV for 10-10 vs 10 = +55.91% (6 decks)
player's EV before dealer checks for blackjack for 10-10 vs 10 (counting dealer blackjack as a player loss) = +43.80% (6 decks)

If player can take a sure 50% before dealer checks for blackjack its right to do so but if he must wait until after dealer checks for blackjack it's better to decline the sure 50%. This is for a full shoe.

k_c

I just saw this option available. Was the discussion in this thread correct for a 6 or 8D shoe game as discussed above?

 

[flyingwind]

Some casinos call it "Automatic Payment" instead of "Casino Surrender." I read somewhere that if your using the hi-lo count system, it is a good idea to take the automatic payment when the true count is +4 or higher.

Under normal conditions when you're dealt 20 against the dealer's 10 up, you have a +56% EV. If you take the automatic half bet winner, you earn 50%.

At a true count of +11 (Kiss RC of '42'), your EV drops to 50% due to the greatly increased chance of pushing. At anything over that, you're better off taking the Casino Surrender option.

Hmm... which of these discussions is correct - if using HiLo count? Does it matter if it's DD vs 6D/8D shoe?

 

[pit15]

Dealer Surrender only comes in if the dealer has a ten showing,not an Ace. If he has a ten,its only 1/13 that he has an Ace.It's pretty much just a bet that he has a ten as a hole card,so its pays off 4 out of 13 times in the long run.

That's not true..

It's not just a bet the dealer has a 10 in the hole, the dealer can have 12 - 16 and draw a 20/21 as well.

 

[Sucker]

Word of warning to any HC'ers who are thinking of using this rule to their advantage:

Be EXTREMELY careful - it has a tendency to bring more than twice as much heat to the game (and to yourself, of course) as does hitting hard 17. Within a month after the Orleans put this rule in, every good game was corrected, and more than one person got "trespassed".

And considering the fact that it only rates to even HAPPEN three or four times in an 8 hour shift, IMO the extra couple of bets it generates per day is NOT worth the downside. I personally will SELDOM make this play. If you MUST do it, my advice would be to NEVER do it more than once per day; and even then, you better have a VERY good act!

 

[Sucker]

Dealer Surrender only comes in if the dealer has a ten showing,not an Ace. If he has a ten,its only 1/13 that he has an Ace.It's pretty much just a bet that he has a ten as a hole card,so its pays off 4 out of 13 times in the long run.

That's not true..

It's not just a bet the dealer has a 10 in the hole, the dealer can have 12 - 16 and draw a 20/21 as well.

Very true. And besides; the dealer will have a ten in the hole 4 out of 12 times, not 4/13 (actually a little less, because 3 of the tens are accounted for). Because if he has an ace in the hole, the hand is over and you don't get to even MAKE the play. Bear in mind that this rule works the same as all surrender games in the U.S. does; LS ONLY. If they offered it as EARLY surrender, then it would be correct BS to always take it. And like I said; I know of no place that allows it as ES.

 

[moo321]

And like I said; I know of no place that allows it as ES.

Would be a nice angle to shoot, if you found a dumb dealer...